Well, this just got darker.
This isn’t surprising, it’s inevitable.
If you folks knew how common pedophilic fantasies are amongst the general public, you would be shocked. Just look to cultures like Japan and Russia that don’t strongly condemn such things, and you’ll find it’s about 15% of the population. It’s only less in the West because of the near homicidal stigma attached to it that makes people vigorously hide that part of themselves.
Fortunately, this also shows that the vast majority of those people don’t offend.
We also tend to define pedophilia as “anything sexual involving a minor”, while reacting to it as if it means “violent rape of a toddler”, so no shit, we sexualize youth all the time, the 18 year mark is a legal and social formality, not a hard limit on human attraction. Adults will find themselves attracted to teens, and they won’t reveal that because who the fuck ever would?
If anything, the issue isn’t that people have these attractions and fantasies, it is that some portion of those people can’t separate fantasy from reality and are willing to hurt a child to get what they want, or they are sociopaths that consume child porn without feeling disgust for witnessing horrific child abuse.
I think the common incest fantasy in the west isn’t too far removed from this too. Like all the actors are above age minimums but they pretend to be step kids or babysitters like these roles aren’t commonly associated with children and older teens. It’s clearly a form of deflection IMO.
Could also be that those are the only porns with even a half assed attempt at a plot instead of just opening with a ground and pound
even a half assed attempt at a plot
“I watch it for the plot, I wonder if they’ll ever get her unstuck”
“I just hope she will be able to afford her rent next month”
It probably stuck from the time when porn was becoming a bit more normal to watch, so it still had some nominal plot initially. Still gender roles with women being at home busy with washing machines and all such, or babysitting.
Personally I think the rise in incest porn has to do with the rise in isolationism. Lots of people, young men especially, are going out less and less and having more of their social interactions online. As a consequence of this, for a number of these men, the vast majority of the real life female interactions they get are from women in their own homes. And biology has a way of adapting, so I think a lot these men are getting confusing feelings about people in their own homes due largely just to lack of outside exposure to women.
As the other comment implies, that’s just the easiest plot to shove porn into. I don’t think that many people are watching it for the plot, it just happens to be there. Like, people aren’t fantasizing about becoming a plumber to fuck women instead of being paid, for example. It’s just a lazy plot because they need to give some reason for the scene.
I think there’s something to be said for how commonly these fantasies and plots feature specifically young or youthful stereotypes. I think there’s no denying that people are into that sort of thing.
For sure some people are into it. I know from my experience I don’t care for that plot. I still watch them because that’s 90% of porn now it seems, but I don’t pretend like it’s a teenager and a parent involved.
I don’t mean just the “stepsister” stuff but overall the fascination with schoolgirls, babysitters and all that stuff.
As far as I can tell, humanity has been attracted to young adulthood since at least the beginning of recorded history. I won’t know why we’re still pretending this is some strange or weird thing.
to cultures like Japan and Russia that don’t strongly condemn such things
As someone from Russia - what?
Unless you mean being attracted to post-puberty, but pre-legal girls. That, ahem, makes sense biologically.
Girls of that age are sometimes kinda cruel to boys, though, so my personal teenage years trauma prevents me from dreaming of them. But if not for it, I think I would.
Toddlers are a completely different issue.
There is this thing that I feel is most prevalent in the USA, to call any attraction to a girl under the age of 18 pedophilia. Because that’s the age to star in porn. The term should truly be used for attraction to children. I think it’s an extension of the “pedo panic” where every man is assumed for some reason to be a child rapist now.
As such almost every young man could at some point be caught as a “pedophile”- 17 year olds sneak into clubs all the time, for example. 20 year old hooked up with one? Now he is considered a pedophile even if the actual age of consent is lower.
Meanwhile the porn industry glorifies “barely 18” girls as something highly desirable. It’s a little messed up to say the least.
Actual pedos who are into kids should be put in mental institutions. But I would strongly suspect that 15% stated just includes honest young men and creepy old men, none of which are truly pedophiles. That number is way too high.
As such almost every young man could at some point
Something is wrong with your stats. “Almost every” would be above 97%. Or if by “could” you mean it happening in a perfectly normal situation - yes.
OK, I don’t really like talking about that age and that subject. Just batch-commenting everything.
Id say that 97% of all 18 year olds has had attraction to 17 year olds is not a weird number, unless asexuality is more common than I thought
Attraction yeah, I understood it as the act requiring consent from that text.
Attraction - it’d be virtually everyone I guess in one way or another. Asexuality is not the same as complete lack of romantic interest or even inability to enjoy physical parts.
The text are talking of branding attraction of <18 year olds as pedophilia, and didn’t talk about doing anything more than experiencing the attraction EDIT more than giving examples of where they may accidently hook up with a 17 year old who snuck into a 18+ bar and then getting the pedophilia treatment by society
Ah. OK. Not a native speaker, thought that “hook up” means sex being involved, and getting said treatment from the judicial branch.
From the society - eh, some of us are so used to “the society” being in general their enemy, that we don’t even think that’s a problem.
Ah, and also a 16yo walking-kissing-whatever with a 19yo is more or less normal here.
As someone from Russia - what?
Dude… you’re one of them. Amazing to see this comment come full circle.
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It’s racism, due to his political alignment he can’t go after black people but Russians are fair game.
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Does this though? Or does it reduce the demand for real CP?
I actually don’t think this is shocking or something that needs to be “investigated.” Other than the sketchy website that doesn’t secure user’s data, that is.
Actual child abuse / grooming happens on social media, chat services, and local churches. Not in a one on one between a user and a llm.
It’s the “burn that witch” reaction.
See how they hate pedophiles and not child rapists.
The crowd wants to feel its power by condemning (and lynching if possible) someone.
I’d rather want to investigate those calling for “investigation” and further violation of privacy of people who for all we know have committed no crime.
That’s about freedom of speech and yelling “fire” in a crowded theater and thousand hills radio, you know the argument.
Why tf are there so many people okay with people roleplaying child sexual abuse AT ALL??? Real or fake KEEP AN EYE ON ALL OF THEM.
I dont care if its a real child or a fucking bot, that shit is disgusting, and the AI is the reason how some pedos are able to generate cp of children without having to actually get their hands on children.
The fact someone will look at this and go “Yea but what about the REAL child rapists huh??” Is astounding. Mfcker if a grown ass adult is willing to make a bot that is promoted to act like a horny toddler, then what exactly is stopping them from looking at real children that way.
Keep in mind, Im not talking about Lolicon, fuck that. I’m talking about people generating images of realistic or semirealistic children to use as profiles for sex bots. I’m talking about AI. I’VE ACTUALLY SEEN PEOPLE DO THIS, someone actually did this with my character recently. They took the likeness of my character and began generating porn with it using prompts like “Getting fcked on the playground, wet psy, little girl, 6 year old, 2 children on playground, slut…”
Digital or not this shit still affects people, it affects people like me. These assholes deserve to be investigated for even attempting this kinda shit on the clear net.
And before you ask, the character that belonged to me looks really young because I look really young. I got severe ADHD which makes me mentally stunted or childish, and that gets reflected in my OCs or fursonas. This person took a persona, an extension of me PERSONALLY, lowered her age on purpose, and made porn of her. That fuckin hurts dude. Especially after speaking about how close these characters are to me. I’m aware it could be a troll, but honest to god, the prompt they used was demonstrably specific and detailed. Some loser online drawing kanna’s feet hurts me way less than someone using AI to generate faux CP and then roleplay with those same bots or prompts. What hurts me more is that there’s no restrictions on some AI’s to stop people from generating images like this. I don’t wanna see shit like this become commonplace or “fine” to do. Keep tabs on individuals like this, cus they VERY WELL could be using the likeness/faces of REAL children for AI CP and that’s just as bad.
Im not talking about Lolicon, fuck that.
I think that this is ironic and a poor choice of words. It’s almost a pun.
DAMN- YOU RIGHT 😭
pedophiles are bad, if you think otherwise you’re pedophile enabling scum and are just as guilty as they are.
edit: I’ll wear the down votes like a badge of honor if it means pedophiles that train their grooming habits against AI are branded as pedophiles.
If I get to know all that stuff about my neighbors, my neighbors get to know tons of information about me too.
Hard pass. Wake me when someone commits a crime.
Why tf would ANYONE want to wait until a child is raped just to do anything. What the actual fuck.
Use a tipline or do what other reputable pedo catchers do. Probe/tempt/lure them.
That’s like waiting until a kid, who is showing all the signs of being a school shooter, to shoot up a school and only then will people attempt to stop them.
Americans frighten me
Me too
Lmao are you out here saying we should essentially smear people for thought crimes?
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would this also apply to if you are pretending to shoot people online?
Dylan Klaybold did it… Or whatever his name is.
He made a map of his school in DOOM
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See, imo this is the exact kind of thinking that makes pedophilia dangerous. Most people would agree that being attracted to children is a mental illness. Most people would agree that mental illnesses should be treated by a knowledgeable professional. But pedophilia is so stigmatized that someone even admitting they have a problem, one I very much doubt most of them want to have, has people calling for them to be drawn and quartered, regardless of if they’ve ever actually hurt anyone.
Do I like that there’s art and writing of people having fantasies about children? No, of course not. But making it impossible for people to have a safe outlet, to even talk about it with a medical professional for fear of imprisonment, death threats, or worse, makes it so these people can’t even get the help they need. It’s like teaching abstinence only sex ed. You’re trying to get people to stop having fantasies by burying them, but it only exacerbates the issue.
Edit: lol got your downvote less than five minutes in and the whole comment edited to just say “pedophiles bad.” I guess I, as you like to put it, “hit a nerve.”
snek has been permabanned from .world for their behavior in this thread. Somewhat refreshing to find a place where the admins recognize that voicing one’s violent murder fantasies doesn’t have a pedophile exception.
I personally think that pedophilia is genetic, or a chemical brain imbalance or something. There has to be something that would cause someone to do something they know that it they get caught, their life is over.
It’s like Louie CK’s joke from his SNL appearance. To paraphrase “I love Mounds bars, but if you told me I would be thrown in jail and raped or killed, I wouldn’t eat one ever again”
I personally think that pedophilia is genetic, or a chemical brain imbalance or something.
Any evidence of that, or just playing armchair scientist?
It seems a lot more likely that humans don’t have control over their attractions in general. Human sexuality has never been linked to specific genetics or brain chemistry, so maybe put the calipers away.
You don’t choose to be straight, you don’t choose to be gay. You don’t choose to like big boobs or little boobs. You don’t choose whether or not to be attracted to muscles. You literally don’t get to choose “your type”. You have your own set of attractions that you largely discover about yourself, rather than decide for yourself.
Pedophilia is likely no different. The only difference in practice is that most other types of interpersonal attraction can be ethically fulfilled between consenting adults. Pedophilia, by definition, cannot, as it involves someone who cannot ethically consent.
We need to start looking at people with inappropriate attractions as people who carry a burden.
You don’t choose to be straight, you don’t choose to be gay
I was going to add that to my argument, but i felt that it would get twisted into someone saying that gay people are pedophiles. I didn’t feel like arguing that point.
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The same counterarguments work.
“When did you choose not to be a pedophile?”
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There are literally tv shows about how to get away with murder. Very popular ones. Those viewers don’t murder at a higher rate than others.
There’s literally a drama that was on ABC called, you guessed it, “How to Get Away With Murder”
As a fiction writer, I do research on espionage, sabotage and even methods of assassination all the time. But I’m not going to make a salted bomb and nuke Jerusalem even though that is an entirely viable evil plot that may even create a net negative death toll.
True poisoners, as Agatha Christie notes, use thallium, not arsenic nor cyanide (though ricin is good if you can get it.) Thallium assassins are also self-regulating, like demolitions experts, killing off those insufficiently careful when handling the stuff.
Modern police are lazy until enough of a stink is made to find a culprit for a specific incident, which is why modern assassins targeting VIPs will find a self-radicalized desperado and point them toward the target. This is the sort of thing FBI is looking for in the investigations of Crooks and Routh. They are likely just blue suicides (or green suicides in this case) but finding a operative pointing them towards Trump would indicate an actual plot. But even if those tracks are found, it would unlikely lead to a specific identity.
I know about this not just to write fiction, but also to understand how things happen, how our fall into one party autocracy and societal collapse plays out. And yes, it means I do a lot of web searches that might excite an onlooking behavioral research agent. Sadly, they’d find I’m yet another boring false positive, though if the nation does succumb to autocracy, I’d certainly write for the resistance. FBI may not care so much about that.
We often look up creepy things just so see if we can, and we do that a lot more than because we’re eager to build a bomb or fast-track our inheritance.
a salted bomb and nuke Jerusalem even though that is an entirely viable evil plot that may even create a net negative death toll.
Wait, how would a nuke with extra radiation fallout create a net negative death toll?
Because religious fanatics have been fighting over controlling access to the holy sites for centuries now, and show no sign of slowing down.
Making the place an exclusion zone would devalue those sites, except for the most determined.
I guess making that whole area uninhabitable for decades means less wars fighting to claim it.
The saltiness comes from all the jizz.
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instead of knowing someone in the neighborhood is researching how to get away with murder.
…how would I know that?
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I missed the original comment and this discussion now makes no sense. Why would you edit the content of your comment when you don’t care about the points or the outrage?
I forget the details, but the long and short of it was that they were advocating for anyone found sending these prompts to an AI being put on an FBI watch list, along with something along the lines of “you’d want to know if your neighbor was doing this.” Then came at least three edits about how they didn’t care about downvotes.
Your psycho-pass is clouding, and your crime coefficient is well over 100.
insert surprised pikachu face here
Wait… so you meant to tell me that predatory simps are using AI incorrectly? Man…. If only someone could have called this years ago- something could have been done to minimize it!
Who knew that unchecked growth could lead to negative results?!
But they did, AI Dungeon got nerfed so bad you could only have happy adventures with.
I don’t know what that is.
It was an AI text adventure game based on GPT 2 (nowadays it uses a more advanced custom LLM) . It released a long time ago and lots of people repurposed it as an interactive erotica novel
😂I tried it as well, and literally every story ended in something erotic somehow 🤣
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IIRC it was a sort of AI Dungeon Master for games like DnD
It wasn’t really like DND, it was like those old text based adventure games you would be able to play on DOS PCs before they got advanced enough for proper 2d graphics. Except this one was AI generated using GPT2 to have infinite interactive scenarios
It still exists if you want to check it out yourself, but it no longer uses GPT2
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yea i don’t have a problem with people with issues having non-harmful outlets for their urges, even though i might consider those outlets distasteful.
An outlet they need is fuckin therapy, not sex robots, tf.
Idk maybe im fucking crazy for that but if I got an urge to murder specific types of people and my “outlet” is roleplaying it or using a videogame to do it. I should probably seek some fuckin help. Not keep doing it. It doesn’t matter that it’s not hurting anyone. It’s unhealthy, doesn’t actually help them, and could escalate into them doing even worse things.
Keep in mind, 1st person shooters or violent games deadass dont count. Intent matters. I can say “yea I love driving over people in GTA, its funny af” and thats fine, but if I confess that I enjoy targeting certain types of people in GTA; that I like attaching personalities or life stories to them, and then talk about how I like to find different ways to kill them slowly because x, y, and z. That I don’t do it as a joke but because I get a genuine kick out of it; That’s a cause of concern, cus I know some people that did shit like that and turned out to actually have mental issues and thoughts of harming real people.
Like I get this is an issue some people are born with, but at a point, shit like that becomes a problem. Especially because it’s porn. To me, Porn in general is just a slippery ass slope. No I don’t wanna start fuckin crucifying ever non-offending pedo I see, i ain’t that kinda person. But for the love of god, can we normalize them getting REAL help instead of these “alternatives”. I just feel like the more you involve yourself with a fantasy bot, the more you’re gonna forget that this isn’t how real people work and the more the line between fantasy and IRL can get blurred.
I mean idk man- im slow, maybe I got it all wrong I truly don’t fuckin know some times. But this is just how I feel, and its fucked up to me that shit like child abuse roleplay just goes unchecked like that or that the people that do this kinda stuff should go unchecked.
An outlet they need is fuckin therapy
Not again…
So it’s less about outlets and more about progression. The concern is while plenty have an outlet they can use, we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
That said, I do agree with you. However, I will always be more for understanding the disorder when no act has occurred and finding treatment.
we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
But we do know that in general, porn doesn’t elicit that kind of escalation into real life. If this particular category of porn did cause that, it’d literally be a total outlier.
Same with other media, too. Rape porn lovers aren’t statistically more likely to rape irl, violent video game lovers aren’t more likely to be violent irl, etc., compared to the general population.
So I think it’s pretty fair to hypothesize that, if anything, it would reduce the incidence of real-world offense. Just look at the massive negative correlation between the proliferation of porn (thanks to the Internet), and the overall incidence of rape.
Also, I’m familiar with one bit of evidence out of Japan that apparently showed that child molesters consume less porn than the average citizen, which I was definitely surprised to learn, but once you think about it in the context of the stuff I mentioned above, it actually makes perfect sense.
In all likelihood, fictional ‘simulations’ like LLMs will directly reduce the incidence of CSA, if anything. If that’s the case, I can’t oppose such things in good conscience–it’d be pretty narcissistic to put my personal disgust over even a single kid not getting bad touched.
I don’t have resources in front of me and shitty internet, so if I’m wrong here call it out and continue the conversation. Just a heads up. Gonna off the top of the dome on this one. Also, I do agree that methods which can reduce actual exposure or action should always be seriously considered, regardless of social outcry.
What you are largely referring to are taboos that also fall under other categories. Someone with a rape kink or fetish are in reality into a gaining of, or loss of, control. People who fall into these categories may also fall into some psychosexual disorder category, I’m not sure. What I do know is paraphilia is a recognized class of mental and sexual disorder or extreme deviancy. Does this mean we fully understand it? Nope! It’s just where we are right now in understanding, though my concern is always whether that understanding has been tainted by the knee jerk reactions surrounding the disorders themselves.
Anyway, I’m digressing a bit.
My larger point is that Paraphilia is understood currently as being outside of typical, or even atypical, sexual deviancy. We literally perceive and understand it as a legitimate mental disorder. Moreover, people who suffer from pedophilia and other recognized sexual disorders do struggle with their feelings and desire to act, even if the majority never do. Some even manage to lead healthy lifestyles around children or objects of their desire. Which brings up the concept of risk.
This is because as humans we can disconnect the real from fantasy. The issue with mental disorders though, and the reason they are disorders, is due to the severity of what is present. Which brings me up to another point: I don’t disagree on a fundamental level. I just worry that when it comes to a basic human need that people will find a way to excuse because they’ve been repeatedly introduced to stimulation that could exacerbate something they may already struggle to not take even the smallest of actions on.
This is a rocky subject that should be explored. Just done so carefully. That said, and I want to be clear, I do not blame any person for a desire, only action. Whatever sexual deviancy may exist, the most important things are safety and harm, and being able to provide appropriate care to those who are victims of their own mind.
…what’s the Ai model trained on?
yikes
A sex chatbot? Ask the developers. I would just scrape AO3.
Do you think there’s a public database of statutory rape chatlogs?
Not at all surprising but also it is an AI
Ain’t that what are the tools there for. I mean I don’t like cp and I don’t want to engage in way with people who like it. But I use those llms to describe fantasies that I wouldn’t even talk about with other humans.
As long as they don’t do it on real humans nobody is hurt.
The problem with AI generated CP is that if they’re legal, it opens a new line of defense for actual CP. You would need to prove the content is not AI to convince real abusers. This is why it can’t be made legal, it needs to be prosecuted like real CP to be sure to convict actual abusers.
This is an incredibly itchy and complicated theme. So I will try not go go really further into it.
But prosecute what is essentially a work of fiction seems bad.
This it not even a topic new to the AI. CP has been wildly represented in both written and graphical media. And the consensus in most free countries is not to prosecute those as they are a work of fiction.
I cannot think why an AI written CP fiction is different from human written CP fiction.
I suppose “AI big bad” justify it for some. But for me there should be a logical explanation behind if we would began to prosecute works of fiction why some will be prosecuted and why other will not. Specially when the one that’s being prosecuted is just regurgitating the human written stories about CP that are not being prosecuted nowadays.
I essentially think that a work of fiction should never be prosecuted to begin with, no matter the topic. And I also think that an AI writing about CP is no worse than an actual human doing the same thing.
I’m not claiming it’s legally simple but the difference is that this new “fiction” is very hard, if not impossible to distinguish from reality. Nowadays AI can form a regular human hand.
I’m unfamiliar with the exact situation here, but when it comes to generative AI as I understand it, CP image output also means CP images in the training data.
That may not strictly be true, but it is certainly worth investigating at minimum.
