“As a Christian, I don’t think you can be both MAGA and Christian,” one person wrote in the comments of the video.
Two weeks ago, Jen Hamilton, a nurse with a sizable following on TikTok and Instagram, picked up her Bible and made a video that would quickly go viral.
“Basically, I sat down at my kitchen table and began to read from Matthew 25 while overlaying MAGA policies that directly oppose the character and nature of Jesus’ teachings,” she told HuffPost.
In the comments of the video ― which currently has more than 8.6 million views on TikTok ― many (Christians and atheists alike) applauded Hamilton for using straight Scripture as a way of offering commentary. Others picked a bone with Christians who uncritically support Trump.
If jesus came back today, mega will definitely deport him to a concentration camp
I wish Christians in red states were Christians.
I’ve taken to begging churches in my state to investigate the states systemic refusal to investigate the physical and sexual abuse of children. I’ll see if our “Christians” believe in the words of Christ.
They will pray about it. God’s will and all that.
Yeah, probably.
But like Kierkegaard’s Knight of Faith, I’m attempting to make the infinite movement and have hope in the impossible. We’ll see if the someone shows up to save Isaac.
Praying is literally just thinking with extra steps.
Strictly speaking, I don’t think there’s a single scripture that specifically calls out sexual abuse of children. There’s general prohibitions against sex outside of marriage and such, but nothing that applies directly to pedophilia.
You get there by not being a monster. Literal, direct interpretations of the Bible won’t do it.
If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 18:6
It often interpreted to refer to people who are new to the faith, but I think that it includes children too.
That could mean anything though.
I wish Christians in red states were Christians.
They are whether you like that or not.
I’ll see if our “Christians” believe in the words of Christ.
Pretty sure your savior had a lot to say about judging others.
I don’t think they are. Just calling yourself Christian doesn’t mean you are.
They are whether you like that or not.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
-Matthew 7:21
Pretty sure your savior had a lot to say about judging others.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
-Matthew 7:15
Wait, are you telling me the Bible is contradictory?!?
No, that’s not right… Only the verses that apply RIGHT NOW matter and we need to ignore the rest.
Or are you going to argue that according to the Bible, it’s other Christians who are actually the ones who are meant to judge?
Wait, are you telling me the Bible is contradictory?!?
I’m not telling you anything, I simply quoted it. Read the passages.
If you see a contradiction then that’s what your brain is telling yourself.
Or are you going to argue that according to the Bible, it’s other Christians who are actually the ones who are meant to judge?
I’m not going to argue anything. I’m simply going to quote the Bible again.
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
-Corinthians 5:11-13
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
^understanding falls short.
Oh? Please, explain to me how the “No true Scotsman” fallacy doesn’t apply to the argument.
And do I really need to quote the verses about judging not lest ye be judged, and the plank in your own eye, etc?
I have a pretty deep understanding of Christianity, which is why I’m disgusted by it.
Please, explain to me how the “No true Scotsman” fallacy doesn’t apply to the argument.
Yeah, sure, let’s do that. Throwing out some random fallacy names without understanding what the fallacy actually is is easy. Actually understanding what the referenced fallacy actually means is more difficult.
So let’s go to the Wikipedia definition:
The “no true Scotsman” fallacy is committed when the arguer satisfies the following conditions:[3][4][6]
- not publicly retreating from the initial, falsified a posteriori assertion
- offering a modified assertion that definitionally excludes a targeted unwanted counterexample
- using rhetoric to signal the modification
So u/andros_rex said:
I wish Christians in red states were Christians.
That was their initial assertion, which asserted that those who call themselves “Christians” in red states don’t follow the definition of what Christians are.
To which you answered:
They are whether you like that or not.
So we have an initial assertion, which you didn’t falsify, you just claimed that it was false.
To which u/ABetterTomorrow (note, a different user) answered
^understanding falls short.
Which means, the original commenter didn’t change anything about the original assertion, and neither did u/ABetterTomorrow.
Since no modification happened, points 2 and 3 or the definition of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy don’t apply either.
The whole situation really has nothing to do with the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, except of sub-groups within a larger group being part of an argument.
Which makes your argument that this is a “no true Scotsman” fallacy in fact a strawman argument, which itself is a fallacy.
Do you now understand what the “no true Scotsman” fallacy is and why you should actually try to understand what terms mean before using them?
Edit: What’s also important to know is why is the “no true Scotsman” fallacy a fallacy? It’s because the argument becomes a tautology, something that’s always true. “No true Scotsman will do X” means “A Scotsman who does X is no true Scotsman, thus no true Scotsman does X”. That’s always true, so it doesn’t mean anything. It takes the original claim “No true Scotsman will do X” and transforms it into a meaningless argument. That’s the fallacious part.
What u/andros_rex actually said meant was “If you don’t follow Christ’s teachings, you shouldn’t call yourself a Christian”. It’s a subtile difference, but an important one. The “no true Scotsman” fallacy argues against doing X by saying that no true Scotsman would be doing X. But what u/andros_rex argues for is that these supposed Christians don’t live up to the standards of Christ/being a Christian. It’s basically the opposite reasoning.
Wow that was a waste of time lol
Explaining something to someone who doesn’t want to understand, or cannot, is a waste of time. But it’s not a complete waste of time trying, just in case they were actually interested in a good-faith discusstion.
You asked for an explanation since you obviously didn’t understand the argument you were making.
I understand that it was rhetorical, since you thought you knew what you were talking about. But I thought, if you are already asking so nicely, maybe you’ll learn something from it.
Looks like not only do you not know what you are talking about, but you are also resistant to learning.
Your understanding of Christianity seems more r/atheism and less informed by any actual engagement with the text.
I’m an atheist because I lived in an Evangelical Christian home for over 18 years. Are you sure you want to question my understanding just because I’m hostile toward it?
I’m questioning your understanding of Christianity because you aren’t really providing evidence for any claims, you are mostly just angry posting. You seem to have religious trauma, and that is normal growing up evangelical. You assume that any argument you perceive of as “in defense of” Christianity to be being made by a Christian. You are reacting from a place of emotion, not logic.
You are trying to make an argument from authority here. Growing up in a Christian household does not automatically make one an expert on the text of the Bible or the history of Christianity. (Have you read the entire Bible? Which translation?)
You can’t apply “No True Scotsman” to Christianity because it is an ideology with many complicated and mutually exclusive beliefs. Can we call Mormons “Christians”? How is Catholicism different from American Protestant evangelical Christianity (versus say, Jamaican Protestant evangelical Christianity?)
I’m assuming the Christianity which you were raised is the American Protestant evangelical Christianity, which is often less based on theological understandings of the Bible, and more about “sola scriptura” - reading random bits of the text and letting the Holy Spirit tell you what it means.
This has a deeply different character from many other forms of Christianity, and might be understood by some as a perversion of the faith - especially with things like the popularity of “Prosperity Gospel” theology in this community. There’s an abandonment of works to focus entirely on faith - which I think is one of the ultimate failures of this version of the religion.
I will not deny your experience with a form of Christianity, but you cannot generalize it to the whole.
I know you think you’re accomplishing something, but I promise you that you’re wasting your time.
I have zero desire to prove to you my understanding of your hateful religion.
Go beat your Gentile slaves (but make sure you don’t beat them to death!)
Matthew 25:41-46 is pretty clear on who the “goats” are.
I’m not even a Christian, but that’s a really cute way to understand Matthew 7:1-3, and not really relevant here :)
deleted by creator
They (Christian MAGA) don’t care. I have a family member I shared this verse, and many others with, and they only got angry at me. This was months ago.
They simply don’t care. Not about what Jesus said, and not about any of us.
My brain is still as broken as my relationship with my father when he looked me straight in the eyes and told me that yes, Jesus would be ok putting kids in cages.
Yeah shit is rough, man. I haven’t spoken to my parents since January 20.
I put the ball in their court and said that all they need to do is disavow Trump, or even just say they made a mistake by voting for/supporting him. That’s it.
Nothing. Apparently clinging onto this hatred is more important than having a relationship with their son.
It’s so bonkers man. I’m curious but afraid to watch The Brainwashing of my Dad cuz I know it will cut too true.
It’s always best to address stuff like this with a very wide grin and say “Ah, it’s good to know that for all your self-righteousness and false piety, you will burn in hell, and Jesus will weep knowing his sacrifice meant nothing to you. Ta!”
You don’t even need to believe it, it just really gets under people’s skin. Fuck 'em.
Or as ol’ JC would have called them: pharisees, liars, hypocrites.
They got…angry? What, typical “don’t sass me” or what? What did they saaaay?
I know it’s not my place to ask but just soooo curious ;-;
Not the person you were asking, but I got kicked out of youth group for saying evolution and the bible could co-exist. There’s that verse about how a thousand years is like a day for god, so clearly the 7 days of creation means evolution could have been god’s mechanism of creation, right?
The youth group leader just told me I was wrong and said I could leave if I wanted to disagree, so I left.
A few years after that, I quit the church for good because they didn’t want to help the community after a tornado because said community was full of demon worshipers (aka, catholics). It made me realize the bible was full of shit, because the pastor was able to believe that god somehow loves sinners, and but also we shouldn’t help sinners, because god wants them to suffer for not loving him back the right way? If heaven is full of those people, I really don’t want to go there.
got kicked out of youth group for saying evolution and the bible could co-exist
That’s now accepted Catholic doctrine.
because said community was full of demon worshipers (aka, catholics)
Yeah, I was brought up as one. Now there’s a reactionary fringe within Catholicism that allies itself with the fundies, and the fundies no accept the traditional Catholic loathing of abortion, which Protestants used to tolerate.
My own journey that led me away from the Church started because the Dominican brothers that taught catechism encouraged critical thought. And one day, I realized that Adam and Eve didn’t know the difference between good and evil until they ate the apple. So they were thrown out of Eden because they were being punished for their God-given innocence. And, of course, there are all the other contradictions, bigotries, cruelties and outright stupidity. The extent to which St Paul contradicts Jesus is quite breathtaking, to name one instance.
Not just Catholic. Most Christians understand very well that if God created the universe, he also created all the mechanisms within that universe, including evolution.
Seeing God as contradictory to evolution to me betrays a very small and limited view of God, as if he’s just some Slartibartfast creating just this one planet.
If heaven is full of those people, I really don’t want to go there.
Matthew 25 is pretty explicit about that that’s not where they’re headed.
Thanks for the response anyway! So basically “Don’t sass me”. This is simply sad, but even more sadly fits our current times :/
Realizing cognitive dissonance can often manifest as anger - is it possible you were beginning to get through to them? Obviously I wasn’t there, I’m just looking for more information!
I’ll tell you exactly why these trump supporting Christians don’t realize this, it’s because most of them don’t actually think critically about what’s actually in the Bible. They have piss poor media literacy, and their example of Christianity is what their probably racist parents and community instilled into them. That’s how my father is.
…pretty much this: they’re conformant authoritarians and christian nationalism just happens to be the cultural identity in which they were raised…
Exactly. It has nothing to do with following Jesus, and everything with cultural identity. They identify as Christian because they were raised that way, not because they actually care about anything Jesus said.
The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus, an excerpt from Al Franken’s Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them - Beliefnet https://share.google/SHxHP3CZmxXC7m8j0
this has always been relevant
MAGA is a cult. There’s nothing Christian about it.
Most white evangelical Christianity is a cult as well, with beliefs that directly contradict their own scriptures.
Most blatant is the “Prosperity Gospel”, which blatantly and directly preaches the polar opposite of what Jesus said explicitly several times.
Seeing prosperity gospel in action is crazy. They really chant shit like “give me the money now, give me the money now”. It’s really a money cult. Religion Americanized. As far away as one could get from Jesus really.
“Prosperity Gospel” seems such a copout for cult-leaders to justify getting rich on their congregation.
So much for “eye of a needle”…
There’s nothing Christian about it.
You fucking wish.
They seem pretty inline with much of Christian history
If you interpret monotheism as incompatible with materialism and as prescriptive of equality, most Jews, Christians and Muslims lose it at the first commandment.
Edit: Self included, naturally.
Why though? Don’t get me wrong, I probably agree with your point of even not your numbered selection.
“I am the lord; thy god” doesn’t even really say anything.
I think they might have meant the second commandment.
The first commandment IS monotheism.
That is not true. The first and second commandment together are monotheism.
- I am the Lord thy God
- Thou shalt have no other gods before me
The first one only specifies that “I” is your God, not specifically forbidding other Gods, and only the second one then forbids other Gods.
If the first one should be interpreted as “I am the Lord thy ONLY God”, then the second commandment would be redundant.
Seems like you’ve cracked the code.
So, which one keeps giving it septic tanks full of dead babies?
And why the fuck do we tolerate this shit existing when that’s the benign version?
Hahahha american christianity is schisming
To be fair, the schisms have been occurring for like 200 years.
More like 500. At this point, they’re fractally schismatic.
I’m just glad people can tell the difference between Christ and Trump, the beast of revelation
- MAGA = Inhuman.
- Lives are saved by supporting this nurse in getting her fellow Christians to stop following MAGA twats.
- Now isn’t the time to dilute her impact by debating the pros and cons of various beliefs. We have a facist to beat.
Inhuman? Im pretty sure doing terrible things is exclusive to humans.
I am happily MAGA= I am happily fascist.
Most “Christians” have never actually read their own handbook, and just stick with shit they’ve heard that reinforces their venomous beliefs.
Maga Christianity is be good to people who look like you and everyone else is a demon
I read about this story today and looked her up. Why do so many people watch her content? I genuinely couldn’t get through more than 30 seconds of anything she’s posted. Not that she’s a bad person, and I hold nothing against her personally, but it’s just utterly uninteresting to boredom. Like photos of food but of people.
