My wife uses Arch (actually). She calls it the internet, when she really means Facebook. She knows it isn’t Apple but it gets a bit vague after that!
The last time I had to fire up the Mesh Central client to sort something out on her desktop from work was around three months ago. Every couple of weeks I ssh into it, update it and schedule a reboot for 03:00.
why arch and not something with more stable updates like debian?
I’ve spent over 25 years with Linux. With multiple distros and a lot of that with Gentoo and Arch. At work I specify Ubuntu or Debian, for simplicity and stability. I always used to use the minimal Ubuntu, because it was tiny with no frills. For quite a few years I managed a fleet of Gentoo systems across multiple customers - with Puppet. Those have quietly gone away. I’ve dallied with SuSE (all varieties), Mandrake, Mandriva, RedHat, Slackware, Yggdrassil and more.
Arch is surprisingly stable and being a rolling job there are no big jumps. When I replace one of our laptops, I simply clone the old one to it and crack on. I used to do the same with Gentoo - my Gentoo laptops went from an OpenRC job with dual Nokia N95 ppp connections around 2007 to through to around 2018 with systemd and decent wifi when I switched to Arch to allow the burns on my lap to heal. I still have a Gentoo VM running (amongst friends) on the esxi in my attic.
It was installed in 2006 according to some of the kernel config files. I left it for way too long and had to use git to make Portage advance forwards in time and fix around a decade of neglect. It would have been too easy to wipe and start again. It took about a fortnight to sort out. At one point I even fixed an issue following a forum post I made myself years ago.
Anyway, Arch is pretty stable.
At one point I even fixed an issue following a forum post I made myself years ago.
I love when that happens lmao, it’s the best. Thank you past me.
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The story was divine retribution for blasphemy against arch
USE please.
Each to their own.
I know this was a long comment and I’m only reacting to 1 word, so, I’m sorry in advance… But man, your mention of Mandrake really brought me back… I couldn’t for the life of me remember the distro I used to use all the time and this just clicked it all back into place. So much nostalgia, switching from like red hat 5 or 6 (not rhel, old plain red hat) to mandrake and being so happy.
Red Hat was a torture device. I do not understand how things shook out the way they did.
Hell, all of Linux was so crude. I don’t understand why we didn’t all just use BSD, like me!
I tried FreeBSD for awhile about 15 years ago. it was great, a lot of things I liked better than most Linux distros. But what drew me to Linux in the late '90s was the politics of the license and I just was never as comfortable with the BSD licensing. Honestly, it’s one of the things that worries me about the way Linux is going these days. Seems to be getting way more popular, yet a lot of the people showing up are just blind consumers.
It is great to have choice. I remember buying a CD with OpenBSD (the one with a yellow pufferfish logo) back in the late 90s/00s and giving it a whirl. I broke my work PC somewhat with it but at the time I worked on a help desk and we used VT200 emulators to access “RMS”. I still had a term but graphics was out of the question! I could never get the modes right. I worked like that for six months. Everyone else had DOS and Win 3.114WG and they thought I was being deliberately edgy. I had a hell of a time working out how to map PF1-4 (DEC Vax) to local keys.
I now run around 30 odd pfSense boxes across the UK. They run FreeBSD, with a frisson of PHP n that on top. My office cluster has six internets - two at 1Gbs-1. The two boxes are Dell servers with a lot of NICs (12 each) I will shortly be swapping out a few for 10Gb NICs. They are rock solid and just crack on and do the job. There are several packages that make life so easy: ACME - SSL certs; HA Proxy - proxy lots of sites with one IP; OpenVPN - we run a lot of them.
However, pppd on BSD is single threaded which means that on an APU2 you max out at around 300MBs-1. Linux pppd is multi-threaded and does better (about 400Mbs-1 on the same hardware. Not exactly the end of the world. The real problem was sticking to APU2!
Anyway. Run what you like - you have choice and choice is good.
Mmmm … RedHat with KDE = Mandrake. I still mostly exclusively use KDE.
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What does this mean lol it feels vaguely threatening towards debian
So he can say his wife uses Arch (btw)
I run Debian on all of my Home Assistant boxes, apart from one where I am trying out HassOS. I also have a test Proxmox two node cluster at work with multiple SAN volumes. Proxmox is Debian based. Sadly, it isn’t very iSCSI friendly - you can’t do snapshots. I’m looking at possible VMware replacement options here.
Am I threatening Debbie and Ian’s distro? I personally consider Ian to be a bit of a hero. He created Debian, and the world + dog has used it everywhere.
Everywhere.
Them Raspberry Pi thingies are certified (well bits are) for space. It used to be called Raspbian but the OS on a RPi is still Debian with knobs on.
Debian is sometimes frustratingly out of date for daily apps like the web browser. I’d rather recommend something with a bit more updates like Mint.
frustratingly out of date for daily apps like the web browser
Use flatpack for those then?
Good point, flatpack wasn’t widespread when I tried Debian as a workstation years ago.
just use firefox flatpak and you’re good
Fuuuuck flatpack. Just run firefox nightly and you’ll be fine. Release 118.0a1 for me at the moment.
My dad’s PC has ESR with uBlock anyway, so whatever.
After many years of using multiple devices and even servers with Archlinux installed it never broke because of an update (spoiler: I use systemd-boot instead of grub). If a system is to be used by a less experienced user, just install linux-lts Kernel instead.
Unstable does not mean it crashes/breaks often, it just means it does not guarantee to not bump to the newest upstream version and that it does not do backports. This can be a problem when using unmaintaned software that does not like using a recent python/php.
This is also great because if you find a bug in a software you can report it to upstream directly. Debian maintainers only backport severe bugs, not every one of them. It can take over a year for new features to arrive - especially painful with applications like gimp, krita, blender, etc. You can use debian-unstable of course, which is close to upstream as well.
I setup a pacman hook to reinstall grub and rebuild the config file after every grub update. This is apparently how the grub team expect people to use it. They want each distro to setup their own install scripts or something.
So far no issues from grub and I’ve had it set up that way for half a year.
Arch has rolling releases and is super stable.
How do you define “stable”?
Low occurence of notable bugs during daily use.
“Ability to reboot without breaking a sweat”
I have never had Arch break during an update. I’ve never had it crash. I’ve never encountered an issue I couldn’t resolve, and for that matter I don’t really encounter issues. Usually the only problems are that I haven’t installed a service that would usually come standard with another OS, so I have to check the wiki, install, and configure something.
I haven’t had Arch break during an update, but I always check the home page first, there are absolutely times my system would have broken during a blind update.
Arch doesn’t support blind updates - it explicitly tells you to always check the home page before an update in case “out-of-the-ordinary” user intervention is required. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_maintenance
Basically, don’t run arch unless you’re willing to be a Linux system admin.
Similar, but a little more involved, to Debian testing or unstable. Install
apt-listbugsand when you go to upgrade it’ll let you know what issues are floating around. You can choose to work around the issue, or wait a day or two for the wrinkles to be ironed out.
Stable doesn’t mean that the OS doesn’t break, but that the way it functions doesn’t change.
I see. I asked because “stable” means different things in different distros. In Debian it means that interfaces and functionality in one version doesn’t change. If I set up a script that interacts with the system in various ways, parsing output, using certain binaries in certain ways etc, I should be able to trust that it works the same year after year with upgrades within the same release. To some people this is important, to some people it isn’t.
Wouldn’t OpenSUSE Tumbleweed be a much better option then?
One of my staff runs Tumbleweed. I will get around to evaluating it one day.
because Arch is more lightwheight than Debian, and also more stable than non-arch users think it is
That’s torture and is outlawed by the geneva convention (btw)
If she only does basic web browsing, why not something more stable like Ubuntu or Debian?
with arch it’s relatively easy given enough experience to build for someone absolutely minimal desktop environment which will run you a browser and that’s it and it will be rock solid even with rolling release updates because there’s nothing to break.
every time I’ve tried “out of the box” desktop experience of ubuntu and likes it’s been atrocious with a lot of moving parts.
Define stable! Both are non rolling distros so that means that you have the upgrade jolt every few years. I have several VMs that started off life as Ubuntu LTS around 16 so from 2016 and are still running but now on 2022.04. Those are servers so relatively simple - web, PHP, Samba, DBs, etc. PHP is a pain to fix up. Ubuntu doesn’t have the rather neat slotting feature that Gentoo has so you get to do quite a lot of detective work to put it back together again. Debian is similar - again I have several systems that I manage that have gone through at least three or four Toy Story names.
Arch is rolling so there is no break and continue point. There have been some packages that have broken or been broken but not the entire system and that suits me. The QA is surprisingly good from the devs. Arch really isn’t the bugbear, nightmare super ricer thingie that it is sometimes painted out to be. I find it a very thoughtfully put together distro with an awful lot of moving parts that are well integrated and a great toolset. Choice is paramount and delivered in spades without the micro management that Gentoo requires.
It also helps that I have been doing this stuff for well over two decades so some challenges are no longer the challenge they once were.
Opened the post for this comment, wasn’t disappointed!
Absolutely one of my favorite james acaster quotes! His whole Netflix special, “Repertoire” is just fantastic
Personally, if you can’t tell me if you are running Windows or MacOS, I don’t really want you downloading my software
Why? Are you feeling bad about all the adware you bundled in?
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I used to work with internet service for trains. I remember one support ticket filed by the train conductor:
“Internet doesn’t work”
No info regarding area
No info regarding when
No info regarding which carriage
…or even which train.Well, I managed to jump through a few hoops, figuring out the schedule for this particular individual, and could deduce which train at least. Nagios reported everything as fine, but sometimes Nagios can lie, so I tracked it down and did the usual diagnostics onboard. Couldn’t find anything wrong.
I phoned up the guy and it turned out he’d forgotten to enable wifi on his phone.
have you been im it long enough to see some that used their cd drive a coke holder.
I’ve done that myself.
better yet is the program doesn’t even have a comment feature
Related IT Crowd scene
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=-W5XXnEXuWM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Even more people can’t get Linux to run.
Incompetent users ig
Does anyone really not know if they have an apple or windows device…?
I’m sure my grandma does not give a shit
I do Linux research for a living and I barely give a shit.
I got my grandma a chromebox for easy updates and minimal tech support. I get a call from her probably once a month when a random tab she got to through Facebook puts her browser in full screen and says she has a windows virus. Sometimes she calls them but is smart enough to not give a credit card. Every time she calls me all scared and asks “I don’t have Microsoft right?” lol
Not sure grandma would be visiting this site
Sometimes they can afford to not know because they have a relative who can manage the device for them. In which case they really wouldn’t be installing software on their own really.
You would be surprised at how many people cannot even change the volume on their tablet.
You would be surprised at how many people cannot even change the volume on their tablet.
If that number is more than 0 then I would be very surprised. There are buttons on the side for volume and volume buttons have been standard on devices since at least the early 80’s.
Had someone ask me why their phone didnt make noise or vibrate when they recieved calls the other day. They were pressing the volume down button with the unlock button to get the screen to turn on/off. So it would slowly mute the phone and take the vibrate off once muted.
They would have benefited from the buttons not being less than half an inch away, and possibly on the opposite side. (Not sure what kind of phone it was, it was a cheaper device it seemed.)
This reminds me of that time where my mum entered the fastboot menu on her phone by mistake. She panicked and I just told her to restart, making sure she holds only the power button this time. It also reminds me of the first time I got into my first smart device (my Tablet’s) bootloader by mistake. I was 10, my parents had just bought me the tablet like a week ago and I was at my grandma’s so I understandably panicked a lot. But of course, no damage was done.
Now phones lock bootloaders, to protect others from making the same mistake you did.
Isn’t that so nice of them? /s
That /s is carrying so much of that comment. I’m running a custom ROM, BTW.
Usually you can still enter fastboot, just not do anything except factory reset, or flash signed firmware.
Conversely me, the first time I did this on my Galaxy S2: H A C K E R M A N
My aunt in her late 70s probably is only distantly aware. I wouldn’t be surprised if she turned her tablet around to check.
Yes. I have helped people install software over discord and they don’t know what a OS is.
Some people are very braindead you know
I don’t know, it sounds a bit Linux circle-jerky to me but then again a lot of people are indeed very clueless, true!
I wouldn’t say braindead. They just don’t care (because all they need a computer for is to read emails and use a text processor) or haven’t had the time to learn yet (every known fact must be learned for a first time at some point in your life, which means there is a time in your life where you don’t have that knowledge yet (ie. the time before you acquired that knowledge)).
Not if you are on Android phone.
I think you mean a “Samsung”. Because like 50% of people using Android have no idea that they are.
I think you mean a “Pixel” because most Samsung customers only care that it’s “Not an iPhone”
For the past decade or more, people have been asking me if my phone is “iPhone or Samsung”, USB micro/C are referred to as “Samsung charger”, and I’m pretty sure no one knows what a Pixel is, though that may just be because the big carriers don’t offer them where I live.
That’s pretty disappointing, because Samsung is a terrible company, with a bad UI, and creepy privacy practices.
Sure, but Samsung has a massive advertising budget, and that’s what is truely important. It means it’s what people know.
You’d be very surprised
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Penguin fellas only download software from package managers and official repos tho
Unless it’s not in a package manager, and you’re assuming those links don’t point to official repos
downloading software from the browser? Are we windows users?
I mean, I do still tend to use a browser to get the git URL…
that’s what AUR is for.
i use arch btw (not really I use EndeavorOs which is basically Arch with a gui installer)
hey i gotten a few direct from developers websites.
Lol
If the client is blocking OS fingerprinting by returning generic
navigator.appVersionanduserAgentvalues you should probably just assume Linux in the first place.that one NetBSD user bursts into flames
Shouldn’t that be a FreeBSD user?
An OpenBSD user would puffer up instead.
Penguin People
Penguin People
I’ll have you know I’m and Arch Oligarch tyvm.
You mean, there are still websites that don’t auto-detect what OS you’re running and make you actually choose?
I actually hate it when a website does that, especially when it doesn’t let you download the application you want because your OS is not compatible. For example you wanna download some windows software to run it with Wine/Proton and the website detects you are running linux and does not let you download. I always need to spoof my User-Agent string to get access.
The correct solution (as with languages on websites) is to auto-detect but then make it super easy and obvious how to change if the auto detected version is not what the user wants.
Also if any web developers out there are reading - don’t use the user’s location to determine the language/region they want, and especially don’t force it. I have no idea why so many websites do this but those responsible deserve to permanently have small amounts of sand in all their socks.
How do websites choose a language by location? What about countries that have more than one official language?
Yeah, I’m saying they shouldn’t, but plenty of them do. They use geoip or location services to work out where you are and then use that to send you to the local site or the site in the language that they feel is appropriate for that location.
If you’re really lucky they then make it difficult (and sometimes practically impossible) to switch.
Besides the problem you’ve highlighted for countries with multiple languages, you also have immigrants, people on holiday, multilingual people, VPN users… And it’s not great for your SEO either.
I hated when Spotify forced me dutch language, glad I got my account deleted.
yeah it’s really annoying all my devices are in english but my native language is german so sometimes it’s in english and sometimes in german
The kind of website that distributes linux stuff is going to know most linux distros ship with Firefox set up to not report OS
Does librewolf do that too? I didn’t realize that was a feature of firefox
Librewolf reports as Firefox on Win 10.
And this is why stats showing how prevalent Linux users are on a site are pretty useless.
Because an oddball browser based on Firefox says it’s Firefox? I don’t really follow the logic there. No one gave an example of the OS being wrong in a UA string
No. Because the firefox based browser shows linux as windows to refuse some tracking
Huh that’s interesting, thanks
Not by default but configuring it to lie about your user agent is dead easy
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Hmm. If only it could all be done client side somehow, like maybe there should be a client side programming language for browsers? How cool would that be?
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Penguin people for sure know theirs
And they’ll tell you about it every time.
I use NixOS, btw.
Man of culture
i use multiple os.
I use even more! (j/k)
I use Arch.
Insert GNU/ LINUX Copypasta here. To feed the meme: I use Pop!_OS btw
As if apple users had no fuckin clue
My mom is tech illiterate and I buy all her devices for her. If I gave her a Mac she’ll just use it without knowing what OS it is.
Worked in a repair shop long enough to know that a whole lot of mac users just know they bought a “better computer” without any idea of what an operating system is, someone showed them that the photo they took on their phone magically appeared on their computer and that was all the info they needed to pay 2 grand for it
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weeeeelllllllll …
(jk)
Oh, look! I have a weird windowzzzz with a weird dock! Is it windows 12!? /s
On the other hand if you have a device you don’t know what OS is on there it is likely some kind of Penguin (TV, SmartFridge, Hearing system display)
Direct link for the lazy: https://srgrafo.com/series/Chloevely
For the confused: it seems to be a Visual Novel (possibly nsfw?) by the person who makes the comics with this character you’ve probably seen
And before he blew up with these comics, he made a fantastic series of RimWorld comics, which I highly recommend!
Doesn’t he draw mostly naked characters in this series that look like they’re goddamn 12 year olds? That might relate more to related materials than the visual novel itself, but still.
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Oh it’s the Reddit guy
Yeah, the one who draws an imaginary teen girlfriend and unfunny cringe comics
There are some tech illiterate people, who use Linux without knowing it, because their child set it up for them.
80% of people using Android.
You’re being generous.
98%
Or their sibling (e.g. my sister).
If you don’t know what OS you’re using, how likely are you to know or understand what this app is?
I use Linux and I have no idea what this program is for. Something about a comic book series?
Arch btw ;)
