If you have 10 people and 1 Nazi sitting at a dinner table and willingly eating together, you have 11 Nazis. You vote for Nazis. You are complicit. I don’t care if you don’t want to vote for Nazis. You vote for Nazis anyway. No one is forcing you to vote for Nazis.
When right-wingers clean their own house then, and only then, may I reconsider my opinions. If you are a friend to a rasicist (etc), support them, invite then to parties, vote with them then I see no difference.
I’m not exactly a right winger myself, so I don’t really know. My point is that conservatism is not the same as evangelical Christian fundamentalism, and that all groups have people with honest, if possibly mistaken, intentions and plain bad actors.
How does one escort these people out of the “conservative” label exactly? I’m sure many feminists would like to do the same to RadFems and TERFs. And the MensLib crowd would like to distance themselves from MRAs and RedPillers (think Andrew Tate and you’re not far off with that last one).
The problem is, they keep getting grouped together anyway, especially by opponents, as it makes the whole so much easier to attack, and gets so many more clicks, which is the new lifeblood of journalism, apparently.
Conservative outlets often do the same with us, by the way. They lump people that simply want equality with the crazies that want to destroy Christianity and put Caucasians in a subjugatory position in society. Yes these people exist, even if they are currently inconsequential.
For every philosophy, belief system, or school of thought, there are people who can be reasoned with, even if they are incorrect, and there are hardliners who take things too far.
How does one escort these people out of the “conservative” label exactly?
See Al Franken, Anthony Weiner, Andrew Cuomo… It’s pretty easy to kick people out of your party if the will is there.
Conservative outlets often do the same with us, by the way. They lump people that simply want equality with the crazies that want to destroy Christianity and put Caucasians in a subjugatory position in society. Yes these people exist, even if they are currently inconsequential.
The problem is it isn’t just a party. You abolish the Republicans, the crazies will just come back as the Pants-On-Head party or somesuch. The crazies are organised, and they will organise outside of the Republican party if need be. Hell, Trump has already threatened to do so.
You do however make an excellent point about the crazies in congress, and I’m not saying we should ignore the damage they are doing. I’m just saying not everyone in the conservative sphere is a certified MAGAt, even if the latter does have big numbers.
If your still in the conservative sphere post maga. You own it. You are maga. There is no separation. Maga isn’t antifa where it’s a decentralized unaligned group of protestors, maga is in the halls of power, it’s passing laws, the people you vote into office are voting yes.
There is no distinction and won’t be one for half a century at least.
But it isn’t exactly a cut and dry case to everyone why an old demented goon is any better than a shitty asshole businessman.
You know, I hear you on this one, and I agree we should be understanding of people who vote one way or the other - but that doesn’t mean we should tolerate it. Often when I’ve had conversations with Trump voters, a lot of their opinions are based on ignorance or distortions of the truth, and it’s because they’ve been sucked into a media ecosystem that is purpose-built to feed those distortions to them. A lot of them are working class folks who want to see Trump stick up for the working class and I’m over here like “why would he ever fucking do that have you ever listened to the guy talk what the fuck?” But it simply isn’t obvious to a lot of people. I’ve tried a lot of different approaches with varying levels of success, but I think the most important things are to be open to difficult conversations, to know what you believe and why, and to hold your ground, with a smile of course.
Most right-leaning individuals are not racist homophobic dick-wads, they’re not waving the confederate flag, and they don’t want to vote for Trump or Desantis or whatever degenerate asshole is up on that podium next.
And yet something like 30% of eligible Americans voted for trump- and while a substantial number of republicans didn’t vote for trump but did vote down ballot… the vast majority of voting republicans did.
You’d be more persuasive if ya’ll didn’t vote for trump or the assholes like him.
Or even just came out and criticized them to their faces… and not inside the “librul echo chamber”; where it’s safe.
Silence is complicity.
You cannot be silent and not at least partly to blame.
Most right-leaning individuals are not racist homophobic dick-wads, they’re not waving the confederate flag, and they don’t want to vote for Trump or Desantis or whatever degenerate asshole is up on that podium next.
That has not been the impression they give me when I’ve had disagreements with the right wing people who I know. If you bring up any of the horrible shit the people they support do, they’ll just shrug and say “well, I can’t vote for x, they’re a Democrat. It’s not really a big deal anyways”
I’m also curious what you think racism is. I know a lot of racist Democrats, too.
Go out there and meet some people. We’re all humans and it would be a lot easier to solve our problems if we were in this together.
I think this is naive. That sentiment is collectivistic. Right wing politics is vehemetly individualistic. They’d just call you a communist and ignore anything you’d have to say. They don’t want to solve problems, they want only their problems to be solved.
Most right-leaning individuals are not racist homophobic dick-wads, they’re not waving the confederate flag, and they don’t want to vote for Trump or Desantis or whatever degenerate asshole is up on that podium next.
Trump has consistently polled a majority of Republican voters for years now, so your claim is completely baseless.
They can just not vote but they do vote and they vote for the degenerates so that… They get lower taxes? Is that what they are selling their souls for?
Fuck, I don’t know. All the right-leaning individuals that I know, mainly my blood family, are bigoted in many ways. This shit is really obvious to be as a queer person.
People say “not all right-wingers” but like… It basically is. And even if they may not personally be bigoted, they still end up supporting parties or systems that are.
The actual open minded right-wingers end up being more left-leaning once they realize the failures of right-wing ideology.
Most right-leaning individuals are not racist homophobic dick-wads, they’re not waving the confederate flag, and they don’t want to vote for Trump or Desantis or whatever degenerate asshole is up on that podium next.
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If you have 10 people and 1 Nazi sitting at a dinner table and willingly eating together, you have 11 Nazis. You vote for Nazis. You are complicit. I don’t care if you don’t want to vote for Nazis. You vote for Nazis anyway. No one is forcing you to vote for Nazis.
When right-wingers clean their own house then, and only then, may I reconsider my opinions. If you are a friend to a rasicist (etc), support them, invite then to parties, vote with them then I see no difference.
Many are not. The ones that vote based on economic policy aren’t exactly inviting the KKK/MTG types over for barbecues.
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I’m not exactly a right winger myself, so I don’t really know. My point is that conservatism is not the same as evangelical Christian fundamentalism, and that all groups have people with honest, if possibly mistaken, intentions and plain bad actors.
They may not have invited them but they’re not trying very hard to escort them out, either.
How does one escort these people out of the “conservative” label exactly? I’m sure many feminists would like to do the same to RadFems and TERFs. And the MensLib crowd would like to distance themselves from MRAs and RedPillers (think Andrew Tate and you’re not far off with that last one).
The problem is, they keep getting grouped together anyway, especially by opponents, as it makes the whole so much easier to attack, and gets so many more clicks, which is the new lifeblood of journalism, apparently.
Conservative outlets often do the same with us, by the way. They lump people that simply want equality with the crazies that want to destroy Christianity and put Caucasians in a subjugatory position in society. Yes these people exist, even if they are currently inconsequential.
For every philosophy, belief system, or school of thought, there are people who can be reasoned with, even if they are incorrect, and there are hardliners who take things too far.
See Al Franken, Anthony Weiner, Andrew Cuomo… It’s pretty easy to kick people out of your party if the will is there.
The right wing crazies are in Congress.
The problem is it isn’t just a party. You abolish the Republicans, the crazies will just come back as the Pants-On-Head party or somesuch. The crazies are organised, and they will organise outside of the Republican party if need be. Hell, Trump has already threatened to do so.
You do however make an excellent point about the crazies in congress, and I’m not saying we should ignore the damage they are doing. I’m just saying not everyone in the conservative sphere is a certified MAGAt, even if the latter does have big numbers.
If your still in the conservative sphere post maga. You own it. You are maga. There is no separation. Maga isn’t antifa where it’s a decentralized unaligned group of protestors, maga is in the halls of power, it’s passing laws, the people you vote into office are voting yes.
There is no distinction and won’t be one for half a century at least.
Ah yea, the economic policy ones too selfish and self centered to care what happens to LGBT people or little girls who were raped.
How redeeming of those people to align themselves so readily with the racists, misogynists, and xenophobes just to back up failed economic policy.
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You know, I hear you on this one, and I agree we should be understanding of people who vote one way or the other - but that doesn’t mean we should tolerate it. Often when I’ve had conversations with Trump voters, a lot of their opinions are based on ignorance or distortions of the truth, and it’s because they’ve been sucked into a media ecosystem that is purpose-built to feed those distortions to them. A lot of them are working class folks who want to see Trump stick up for the working class and I’m over here like “why would he ever fucking do that have you ever listened to the guy talk what the fuck?” But it simply isn’t obvious to a lot of people. I’ve tried a lot of different approaches with varying levels of success, but I think the most important things are to be open to difficult conversations, to know what you believe and why, and to hold your ground, with a smile of course.
And yet something like 30% of eligible Americans voted for trump- and while a substantial number of republicans didn’t vote for trump but did vote down ballot… the vast majority of voting republicans did.
You’d be more persuasive if ya’ll didn’t vote for trump or the assholes like him.
Or even just came out and criticized them to their faces… and not inside the “librul echo chamber”; where it’s safe.
Silence is complicity.
You cannot be silent and not at least partly to blame.
That has not been the impression they give me when I’ve had disagreements with the right wing people who I know. If you bring up any of the horrible shit the people they support do, they’ll just shrug and say “well, I can’t vote for x, they’re a Democrat. It’s not really a big deal anyways”
I’m also curious what you think racism is. I know a lot of racist Democrats, too.
I think this is naive. That sentiment is collectivistic. Right wing politics is vehemetly individualistic. They’d just call you a communist and ignore anything you’d have to say. They don’t want to solve problems, they want only their problems to be solved.
are you a communist? serious question
I don’t think so, I don’t identify as one, at least. I consider myself a leftist.
I believe in collectivism, but I oppose authoritarianism.
they just vote for one.
Trump has consistently polled a majority of Republican voters for years now, so your claim is completely baseless.
They can just not vote but they do vote and they vote for the degenerates so that… They get lower taxes? Is that what they are selling their souls for?
Fuck, I don’t know. All the right-leaning individuals that I know, mainly my blood family, are bigoted in many ways. This shit is really obvious to be as a queer person.
People say “not all right-wingers” but like… It basically is. And even if they may not personally be bigoted, they still end up supporting parties or systems that are.
The actual open minded right-wingers end up being more left-leaning once they realize the failures of right-wing ideology.
This argument is bunk, being too selfish and self centered to care what happens to girls like this is not a redeeming quality.
“Go out there and meet some people.”
I have, thanks. Conservatives are a scourge on this country. Small-minded, bigoted people.
Then they should stop voting for racist assholes.