When fascism wins and starts rounding up people to be executed… Will you have the same attitude?
When your family is facing literal death by a fascist party, was it worth saving just your own family to begin with before they took power?
Because backing down emboldened them, then they took power, now they have control of all legal mechanisms, and now you and your family will die horrifically anyway.
You’re not the one facing the possibility that somebody will kidnap and torture and murder you, your kids, your spouse, etc. right now, with serious doubt as to whether law enforcement, neighbors, judges, and others will help them or take the side of the absuser.
It’s on the cemetery worker to make that call for themselves, and I don’t blame people who choose to run or hide instead of fight.
Bro, you’re arguing with a dude named SnotFlickerman. Expecting a nuanced opinion may be asking a tad much here.
To actually add my own opinion to this, Mr. Flickerman here is representing this in a bit too black & white of a setting. Like obviously it’s gonna be worse if he gets elected. But that doesn’t magically make it safe for an individual to oppose him now. Rather than insisting that a single person retaliate (and thus very likely have the ire of Trump’s less stable fanbase focused on them), it would be more effective to have groups speak out. That (among other things) is why I think the US Army releasing their statement is great- even aside from the high respect that a lot of Trump folk have for the military, it doesn’t give crazies a person to latch onto and attack.
As I am in poverty, I will literally be one of the ones left behind to suffer fascism when everyone else bails.
Sorry I’m not gonna shut up about it.
Keep telling yourself you care about people who are suffering and then turn around and tell them they’re asking too much to be helped by standing up for them.
I didn’t tell this person to get guns and go fighting. I said, press charges. I guess pressing charges makes you a “warrior” now.
But you are telling them to risk their life by going against Trump and being violently retaliated against. And that actually might include tjem needing to use a gun, given how violent rightwing people are. Trump’s own fan base shot at him.
I do agree we should use our rights. Not using your rights is fundamentally the same thing as not having them. I think it’s unfair that fascism has prevented that worker from using her rights and that’s a goal of fascism - to take away our rights. So she’s a victim here as we are trying to tell you. It’s her right as an individual to not press charges, and her reason is that fascists have scared her. That you wouldn’t react the same way in the same situation is great. Not everyone is like you.
Sometimes people need a variety of responses to survive. It’s entirely possible this this story will REALLY anger his base as it is. Active duty army worker can’t press charges against a man who assaulted her because of retaliation from Trump and their people. All so he could disobey rules in fucking Arlington. It could not be a bigger faux pas with conservative women, many of whom have sons in the military and tend to care about men hitting women and officers. A lot of military folks aren’t going to like this either. At minimum it makes him appear even more senile, out of touch, weak, and out of control. It’s bad no matter what.
But in the case of Hurricane Katrina, if people had all stayed they would’ve all died. There are groups of people all over who only survived genocide by others and total decimation by natural disasters because some fled.
I agree we should confront fascists if we are able. I have a collection of death threats from Nazis, myself. But not everyone has to be like me to be valid. Some people aren’t fighters, they flee. That’s fine. Or should we give pregnant women and 5 year olds guns?
If fascists have no one to hurt but each other, then they consume themselves. Fleeing involves the least amount of harm to innocent non-fascists versus fighting which gives them a common enemy to harm.
“Yes, but maybe we can just trust The System and this whole fascism thing will just go away on its own without anyone having to do anything uncomfortable”… says/said nearly everyone with any power to influence whether it goes away.
Not that this unnamed employee pressing charges against a Trump underling is going to save Democracy, and really it’s more important that the government enforce the no-politicizing law, but it’s how this problem festers. We shouldn’t need to even be dealing with a third Trump campaign.
Ah yes, because *checks notes… telling people to do things like press charges is being an armchair warrior.
Also yes, because being in poverty and knowing deep in your heart half the people who say they support you would bail on the country entirely if it meant saving their own skins doesn’t make you tired of hearing it. Because if these people cared so much for each other, they might stand up for each other instead of turning tail and saying “save yourself” while doing nothing to help.
It’s like telling a drowning person to save themselves while holding tightly onto the life vest you could throw them.
Right with ya. I’d press charges, no hesitation. I’d also be a paranoid fucking mess of a human being, a gun within reach no matter where I was. Same room is not good enough, I mean an arm’s length away, tops. Running around the house, peeking out windows like a meth head on a 3-day binge.
Ironically, I might well decline to press my suit in a local matter. Pissing off the local cops? Now you got a permanent target on your back. These MAGA fuckers though, they seem to require numbers to get their pecker up. They also seem to only aim for governmental people and places.
As does the system of nothing happening to people like Trump, while also allowing him to use his platform to target his cult on his new “enemy”. We need a system that will treat a former president accused of assault the same way the cops would respond to an alleged assault with a minority involved.
Until the system is actually going to work for the victim instead of caring about the optics of the assailant (or their “help”), I don’t blame this woman for not wanting to put a target on herself for just doing her job and protecting the privacy/dignity of fallen soldiers and their families.
I keep seeing this sort of comment, as if Trump himself was involved. I’m still not clear if he was present at the altercation. Anyone know exactly where he was during all this?
It was his campaign staff doing the assault, but you think their dear leader was just chilling in the car or something while this woman stepped in to shut down the illegal photoshoot happening? It was his campaign staff there illegally, I think that puts him on the hook for this.
Why the fuck can’t the police place charges anyway? Here in Canada any assault charge is automatic, it doesn’t require the victim to do anything. Is that not true in the US?
The government can press charges on your behalf, but if you’re resistant they will often let the matter drop. It’s really hard to win a case like this if the victim refuses to testify.
Stormy Daniels could have disappeared very quietly. She chose to be a witness instead, and Trump has borne the fallout from that case seeing the light of day.
Look at all the #MeToo abusers who fell from power and public favor - their behavior was “known” publicly in their industry but not widely across the country - and so they remained in positions of power and influence to continue that abuse.
The fact that no one even considers organizing in reverse to protect this person against the crazies is really revealing, you know.
Black Panthers started because they knew they couldn’t trust external forces to protect them.
Glad to know none of y’all will stand up for this persons family, and instead think them standing up to this would equal “killing their own kids” instead of you giving an inch and helping protect them.
You’re the one calling her a coward. How is that protecting her? Start organizing and I’ll join you. Keep calling her a coward for refusing to step up with no protection and I’ll know you’re a hypocrite.
Okay, let’s do it. How would you like to go about organizing? A GoFund me to fund people who can go there and stay vigilant? A meetup group or a change.org petition to get people aware of it? Both?
I don’t know, man. If you start a gofundme I’ll donate, but in reality you’d need a mutual aid movement like the black panthers to protect against these militarized fascist thugs. Calling her a coward is bullshit, we can’t demand other people step up for martyrdom.
When has a MAGA fanatic gone out and attacked an individual that crossed Trump? I’m sure it’s happened, but I can’t think of a single incident. Does Pelosi’s husband count? That felt more like a, “kill libs” thing, and she was a much higher profile target than you and I ever will be.
I’d press charges, be scared shitless and have guns salted around the house like Easter eggs. My kids would be staying inside unless we drove away to get outdoors. And my wife’s pistol training would go from, “how to have fun safely” to “here’s how self-defense works”.
Shitty way to live? You fucking bet, but it would only be temporary, soon forgotten. A Trump Presidency would be permanent.
This. And if they having been paying any attention, they can see that someone like Nancy Pelosi was even vulnerable to an attack from these demons. They came for her, but got her husband. And that’s someone prominent like Nancy - imagine being a cemetary worker and knowing the kind of hate and vitriol and quite possibly, literal violence that would be aimed at you (and your family - these asshats are cowards to the core, of course).
The problem is that as a random cemetery worker who can’t afford bodyguards 24/7, pressing charges stands a significant chance of getting you killed.
And doing nothing only emboldens them.
For sure. But as an individual, it makes a lot of sense to hide instead of fight.
When fascism wins and starts rounding up people to be executed… Will you have the same attitude?
When your family is facing literal death by a fascist party, was it worth saving just your own family to begin with before they took power?
Because backing down emboldened them, then they took power, now they have control of all legal mechanisms, and now you and your family will die horrifically anyway.
Was it worth it?
You’re not the one facing the possibility that somebody will kidnap and torture and murder you, your kids, your spouse, etc. right now, with serious doubt as to whether law enforcement, neighbors, judges, and others will help them or take the side of the absuser.
It’s on the cemetery worker to make that call for themselves, and I don’t blame people who choose to run or hide instead of fight.
I do, because the people who can run or hide are not the most vulnerable in society, who get left behind to deal with the fascists.
Hurrican Katrina all over again. Fuck what happens to the poors, we gotta save ourselves!
And when Trump takes power, that’s going to get better?
That’s nice to say from the comfort of your own chair, when you’re not the one taking the risk.
Bro, you’re arguing with a dude named SnotFlickerman. Expecting a nuanced opinion may be asking a tad much here.
To actually add my own opinion to this, Mr. Flickerman here is representing this in a bit too black & white of a setting. Like obviously it’s gonna be worse if he gets elected. But that doesn’t magically make it safe for an individual to oppose him now. Rather than insisting that a single person retaliate (and thus very likely have the ire of Trump’s less stable fanbase focused on them), it would be more effective to have groups speak out. That (among other things) is why I think the US Army releasing their statement is great- even aside from the high respect that a lot of Trump folk have for the military, it doesn’t give crazies a person to latch onto and attack.
S’not right, having a username like that
As I am in poverty, I will literally be one of the ones left behind to suffer fascism when everyone else bails.
Sorry I’m not gonna shut up about it.
Keep telling yourself you care about people who are suffering and then turn around and tell them they’re asking too much to be helped by standing up for them.
I didn’t tell this person to get guns and go fighting. I said, press charges. I guess pressing charges makes you a “warrior” now.
But you are telling them to risk their life by going against Trump and being violently retaliated against. And that actually might include tjem needing to use a gun, given how violent rightwing people are. Trump’s own fan base shot at him.
I do agree we should use our rights. Not using your rights is fundamentally the same thing as not having them. I think it’s unfair that fascism has prevented that worker from using her rights and that’s a goal of fascism - to take away our rights. So she’s a victim here as we are trying to tell you. It’s her right as an individual to not press charges, and her reason is that fascists have scared her. That you wouldn’t react the same way in the same situation is great. Not everyone is like you.
Sometimes people need a variety of responses to survive. It’s entirely possible this this story will REALLY anger his base as it is. Active duty army worker can’t press charges against a man who assaulted her because of retaliation from Trump and their people. All so he could disobey rules in fucking Arlington. It could not be a bigger faux pas with conservative women, many of whom have sons in the military and tend to care about men hitting women and officers. A lot of military folks aren’t going to like this either. At minimum it makes him appear even more senile, out of touch, weak, and out of control. It’s bad no matter what.
But in the case of Hurricane Katrina, if people had all stayed they would’ve all died. There are groups of people all over who only survived genocide by others and total decimation by natural disasters because some fled.
I agree we should confront fascists if we are able. I have a collection of death threats from Nazis, myself. But not everyone has to be like me to be valid. Some people aren’t fighters, they flee. That’s fine. Or should we give pregnant women and 5 year olds guns?
If fascists have no one to hurt but each other, then they consume themselves. Fleeing involves the least amount of harm to innocent non-fascists versus fighting which gives them a common enemy to harm.
Armchair warrior.
Bravery is not a lack of fear, it’s rather the opposite.
Also, the temporary paranoia I’d suffer would pale in comparison to the life-long ass-kicking I would deal myself if I let this slide.
“First they came for the…” You know the rest.
“Yes, but maybe we can just trust The System and this whole fascism thing will just go away on its own without anyone having to do anything uncomfortable”… says/said nearly everyone with any power to influence whether it goes away.
Not that this unnamed employee pressing charges against a Trump underling is going to save Democracy, and really it’s more important that the government enforce the no-politicizing law, but it’s how this problem festers. We shouldn’t need to even be dealing with a third Trump campaign.
Ah yes, because *checks notes… telling people to do things like press charges is being an armchair warrior.
Also yes, because being in poverty and knowing deep in your heart half the people who say they support you would bail on the country entirely if it meant saving their own skins doesn’t make you tired of hearing it. Because if these people cared so much for each other, they might stand up for each other instead of turning tail and saying “save yourself” while doing nothing to help.
It’s like telling a drowning person to save themselves while holding tightly onto the life vest you could throw them.
Telling someone else to risk their life is what an armchair warrior does. It’s what you are doing.
Right with ya. I’d press charges, no hesitation. I’d also be a paranoid fucking mess of a human being, a gun within reach no matter where I was. Same room is not good enough, I mean an arm’s length away, tops. Running around the house, peeking out windows like a meth head on a 3-day binge.
Ironically, I might well decline to press my suit in a local matter. Pissing off the local cops? Now you got a permanent target on your back. These MAGA fuckers though, they seem to require numbers to get their pecker up. They also seem to only aim for governmental people and places.
As does the system of nothing happening to people like Trump, while also allowing him to use his platform to target his cult on his new “enemy”. We need a system that will treat a former president accused of assault the same way the cops would respond to an alleged assault with a minority involved.
Until the system is actually going to work for the victim instead of caring about the optics of the assailant (or their “help”), I don’t blame this woman for not wanting to put a target on herself for just doing her job and protecting the privacy/dignity of fallen soldiers and their families.
I keep seeing this sort of comment, as if Trump himself was involved. I’m still not clear if he was present at the altercation. Anyone know exactly where he was during all this?
It was his campaign staff doing the assault, but you think their dear leader was just chilling in the car or something while this woman stepped in to shut down the illegal photoshoot happening? It was his campaign staff there illegally, I think that puts him on the hook for this.
In case you’ve forgotten, Trump has been more than accused of sexual assault.
Why the fuck can’t the police place charges anyway? Here in Canada any assault charge is automatic, it doesn’t require the victim to do anything. Is that not true in the US?
Depends on the state and sometimes city.
I’m not sure what Arlington Cemetery actually counts as for law enforcement, but it’s in Virginia, a former slave state.
Fun Fact: the property was confiscated from Robert E Lee following a tax dispute (they couldn’t pay the back taxes they owed from the Civil War)
https://www.history.com/news/arlington-national-cemetery-robert-e-lee-estate
The government can press charges on your behalf, but if you’re resistant they will often let the matter drop. It’s really hard to win a case like this if the victim refuses to testify.
Yeah but there’s video evidence in this case
That being said, I don’t think the state should endanger a victim who is afraid for their safety and not consenting by making them go to trial
You would sacrifice your life or your family to teach Trump a lesson?
Stormy Daniels could have disappeared very quietly. She chose to be a witness instead, and Trump has borne the fallout from that case seeing the light of day.
Look at all the #MeToo abusers who fell from power and public favor - their behavior was “known” publicly in their industry but not widely across the country - and so they remained in positions of power and influence to continue that abuse.
If Trump wins in November do you think he will spare your family that you protected by not teaching him a lesson?
Do you not think its cowardly to not stand up for your fellow citizens and instead stand for only yourself?
It’s like Hurricane Katrina all over again. “Just leave the poors to suffer, fuck em, we are rich and escaped so who cares.”
USA if falling apart because everyone cares about their own skins more than the collective.
SO…you WOULD get your children killed so a Trump staffer gets a slap on the wrist? How does that help the collective again?
The fact that no one even considers organizing in reverse to protect this person against the crazies is really revealing, you know.
Black Panthers started because they knew they couldn’t trust external forces to protect them.
Glad to know none of y’all will stand up for this persons family, and instead think them standing up to this would equal “killing their own kids” instead of you giving an inch and helping protect them.
Sorry, but you forgot to blame us all for Katrina again and therefore your point is invalid.
Ray Nagin Crying GIF
You’re the one calling her a coward. How is that protecting her? Start organizing and I’ll join you. Keep calling her a coward for refusing to step up with no protection and I’ll know you’re a hypocrite.
Okay, let’s do it. How would you like to go about organizing? A GoFund me to fund people who can go there and stay vigilant? A meetup group or a change.org petition to get people aware of it? Both?
I’m being serious.
I don’t know, man. If you start a gofundme I’ll donate, but in reality you’d need a mutual aid movement like the black panthers to protect against these militarized fascist thugs. Calling her a coward is bullshit, we can’t demand other people step up for martyrdom.
When has a MAGA fanatic gone out and attacked an individual that crossed Trump? I’m sure it’s happened, but I can’t think of a single incident. Does Pelosi’s husband count? That felt more like a, “kill libs” thing, and she was a much higher profile target than you and I ever will be.
I’d press charges, be scared shitless and have guns salted around the house like Easter eggs. My kids would be staying inside unless we drove away to get outdoors. And my wife’s pistol training would go from, “how to have fun safely” to “here’s how self-defense works”.
Shitty way to live? You fucking bet, but it would only be temporary, soon forgotten. A Trump Presidency would be permanent.
Man, fuck stochastic terrorism.
This. And if they having been paying any attention, they can see that someone like Nancy Pelosi was even vulnerable to an attack from these demons. They came for her, but got her husband. And that’s someone prominent like Nancy - imagine being a cemetary worker and knowing the kind of hate and vitriol and quite possibly, literal violence that would be aimed at you (and your family - these asshats are cowards to the core, of course).