BGP works under assumption that everyone involved acts in good faith and that good faith can be, and in specific cases in history was, severely abused.
So Ivan Sabotageovich calls up someone who works at Level3
Says “Hey broski I want you to start announcing bogus BGP routes”
Guy who answers the phone says “What? Why would I do that?”
Guy on the phone says “I’ll give you rubles”
Guy who answers the phone says my brother in Christ I make $175k per year and I will get fired and they’ll fix it in about 25 minutes anyway, sorting out and fixing stuff like this is kind of why people like me are employed here and there are a lot of us watching what happens
Guy on the phone says I can also give you TONS of unrefined crude oil and methane, or precision aircraft parts from the 1990s
Guy who answers says I need to go now, good luck though
No, Ivan will just announce “hey, I have direct link into these ASs” and lot of parties will believe him, consider him shortest route and send him lot of traffic intended for said ASs.
That’s what china did in 2010 when they hijacked about 15% of all world’s traffic.
Have you seen what happens on the global interchange when just one cable gets interrupted? It’s absolute chaos. That’s all they want. They aren’t trying to absolutely isolate Internet from the US and it’s allies, we have all kinds of satellite backups for things like that.
I mean you are correct that things like this are a shit show if you are directly involved, but my point is that the wider world can continue fairly unimpeded. Unless they have some kind of magic backhoe that can cut every backbone cable all at once or something, I think the impact in terms of bringing the West’s telecommunications to its knees is going to be more or less nil.
All they need is to send subs around and attach charges ahead of time and blow them all at once. The problem is the time constraints of figuring out exactly where the cables got cut. I believe they have somewhat solved this, but I don’t think it’s bulletproof. The chaos is really the goal though.
Have you seen what happens on the global interchange when just one cable gets interrupted?
I have. Usually.the network tries to route around it, with best effort delivery. This keeps the outage localized and is part of network standards. You can expect delay, though. I guess I don’t see what you’re getting at.
You’re just talking about route healing. They mean to disrupt long standing communications, which doesn’t resolve itself in the same way. BGP works fine for peered connections, but not at a global scale like this. It can take many hours and lots of manual intervention to quiet things down. Do that a few times at regular intervals, and it could be days.
I’ve worked international voice and data networks and I can’t imagine the number of points of presence they would have to hit in your dream scenario. They simply couldn’t do it without going to war, when this effort would give way to plans of survival.
That’s kind of their point. They do dumb shit like to provoke and prod. They’ve been randomly jamming GOS for years for no reason, and cutting these cables as well. It’s just a flexnto let people know if it comes to that, then they might do something. It’s the same reason they run their subs just loud enough to be detected around the north seas, and then go silent.
You don’t understand. They’re just talking shit. They are very aware of what they have to do to start a war with the west. Yet they don’t because they know that it’ll last 20 minutes.
I don’t know if it was you, but I first responded to someone who indicated that losing a network link causes chaos. That is not true. Then they fantasize that a number of links are involved, which is near impossible1
What? The whole fuckin internet is the backup plan
Like bro do you even BGP?
BGP works under assumption that everyone involved acts in good faith and that good faith can be, and in specific cases in history was, severely abused.
So it is likely it will be part of the problem.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGP_hijacking
So Ivan Sabotageovich calls up someone who works at Level3
Says “Hey broski I want you to start announcing bogus BGP routes”
Guy who answers the phone says “What? Why would I do that?”
Guy on the phone says “I’ll give you rubles”
Guy who answers the phone says my brother in Christ I make $175k per year and I will get fired and they’ll fix it in about 25 minutes anyway, sorting out and fixing stuff like this is kind of why people like me are employed here and there are a lot of us watching what happens
Guy on the phone says I can also give you TONS of unrefined crude oil and methane, or precision aircraft parts from the 1990s
Guy who answers says I need to go now, good luck though
Guy on the phone says blyat as the line goes dead
No, Ivan will just announce “hey, I have direct link into these ASs” and lot of parties will believe him, consider him shortest route and send him lot of traffic intended for said ASs.
That’s what china did in 2010 when they hijacked about 15% of all world’s traffic.
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=mca
… for 18 minutes
With their existing infrastructure in the US which Russia doesn’t have
And it was detected (and was trivial to fix once detected it sounds like) even before people were particularly alerted to this as a possibility
18 minutes is a lot in some coordinated multiple-vector attack
You are ignoring the possibility of blackmail though.
Then it gets fixed in 25 minutes.
Have you seen what happens on the global interchange when just one cable gets interrupted? It’s absolute chaos. That’s all they want. They aren’t trying to absolutely isolate Internet from the US and it’s allies, we have all kinds of satellite backups for things like that.
I mean you are correct that things like this are a shit show if you are directly involved, but my point is that the wider world can continue fairly unimpeded. Unless they have some kind of magic backhoe that can cut every backbone cable all at once or something, I think the impact in terms of bringing the West’s telecommunications to its knees is going to be more or less nil.
All they need is to send subs around and attach charges ahead of time and blow them all at once. The problem is the time constraints of figuring out exactly where the cables got cut. I believe they have somewhat solved this, but I don’t think it’s bulletproof. The chaos is really the goal though.
I have. Usually.the network tries to route around it, with best effort delivery. This keeps the outage localized and is part of network standards. You can expect delay, though. I guess I don’t see what you’re getting at.
You’re just talking about route healing. They mean to disrupt long standing communications, which doesn’t resolve itself in the same way. BGP works fine for peered connections, but not at a global scale like this. It can take many hours and lots of manual intervention to quiet things down. Do that a few times at regular intervals, and it could be days.
I’ve worked international voice and data networks and I can’t imagine the number of points of presence they would have to hit in your dream scenario. They simply couldn’t do it without going to war, when this effort would give way to plans of survival.
That’s kind of their point. They do dumb shit like to provoke and prod. They’ve been randomly jamming GOS for years for no reason, and cutting these cables as well. It’s just a flexnto let people know if it comes to that, then they might do something. It’s the same reason they run their subs just loud enough to be detected around the north seas, and then go silent.
You don’t understand. They’re just talking shit. They are very aware of what they have to do to start a war with the west. Yet they don’t because they know that it’ll last 20 minutes.
Yes, you are saying the same thing I am. Not sure why you’re even replying. It’s a flex.
I don’t know if it was you, but I first responded to someone who indicated that losing a network link causes chaos. That is not true. Then they fantasize that a number of links are involved, which is near impossible1
No, I UDP because IDGAF.