I don’t think it’s really much different. What makes windows feel more convenient is that everyone generally learns how to use it first. I think if you took a person that is not familiar with either, they would be able to figure out both OS at around the same time.
it really just depends on what hardware you are on. For example my Dell pribter was plug and play on windows . It took me 6 hours to get it to work on Linux.
This. In my recent experience on one laptop. Arch (Endevour OS btw) installed fine.
But LMDE would not boot. I got a system disk missing error every time after install. So much playing with EUFI settings in BIOS, boot back to live disl, multiple re installs, GRUB repair, remake the ISO (ISO was fine, installed on another PC with no issues). Gave up. Just could not boot to the OS.
Install normal mint. No issues.
And past the install? Bluetooth dongle works fine on arch, but so many issues on mint.
WiFi dongle A works on arch, but not mint. WiFI dongle B dosenr work on arch but does work on mint. Took me a while to work thst one out.
Headphpnes have some weird echo back to me when mic is on. Use pipewire config from archwiki. Worked, but reduced qualoty. Tried a few other configs. Didn’t work. Must have broke something coz now the original config dosnt work. So will just deal with echo.
0 of these issues on windows. And 0 likely your regular user can easily swap to Linux.
Maybe it’s just me, I always had issues with Ubuntu and Debian based distros that I didn’t have with Arch based distros. Why do people say Arch is harder? That was never my experience. I’ve been using endeavorOS and it’s been pretty great.
Arch does tend to keep packages as close to upstream as possible, which can be both a good and bad thing. Sway not binding to graphical-session.target by default is a little strange for example. Other distros also save a first-time user a great deal of configuration for things they probably don’t care about as well. Going through Fedora’s install and finding out that disk encryption and SELinux were configured OOTB was very nice to see personally. On the other hand Arch’s installation (w/o archinstall) has you choosing a bootloader, audio server, display manager, etc. Nothing arduous and I like it, but definitely not for everyone
This is all eliminated by spinoffs of course, but even there users have the option to run random scripts/AUR packages without vetting them. Also doesn’t help that the most popular Arch-based distro for a while (Manjaro) was pretty flaky and generally incompatible with the AUR (despite saying otherwise), leading to many people saying “that’s just Arch” and swearing off the parent project as well
I used Manjaro for about a year and I never will again. Things just seemed to break seemingly without explanation. I switched to endeavourOS and have been using it for over 2 years. I haven’t had any where near the number of issues with eos as I did with Manjaro. It just seems so much more stable. Maybe it’s just me or my hardware configuration or something.
For me it’s the wiki. Arch just explaining so simply. Searching an issue for LMDE just lead to forums. And the Debian or Ubuntu wikis don’t seem as good as arch.
Plus must searches for <other distro> issue seem to lead to forums and random “run this code”. All arch searches led back to the Wiki. All hail the wiki.
But srsly. I feel like I’m LEARNING Linux with arch. Rather than just running fixes for the other distros.
I just installed endeavor an hour ago. I switched from kubuntu. I love the style of the is and arch programs seem to work better out of the box compared to Debian.
True, meanwhile my HP printer had a hell of a time trying to work on windows much less finding an actual downlosd for the scanner tool on HP’s websitr for a printer ovrr 5 years old and on Linux I typed yay HP, 1, then I was ready to print and scan.
Plus KDE discover is the convenience if the Microsoft store was actually good.
Settings are ACTUALLY in setting instead of being split between settings, control panel, individual tool auto diagnoses, powershell, and registry edits.
KDEconnect works seamlessly and I can also locate my phone if I lost it in the house.
Yep, it really just comes down to complete luck that there are drivers in the kernel for your hardware. As another example, my Lenovo Legion sucks at running Linux out of the box. The webcam is terrible, it never suspends correctly, outputting to a monitor is incredibly painful. Meanwhile my wife’s thinkpad runs popos perfectly. Even the touchscreen works.
at this point i have utterly forgotten how windows works and when placed in front of a computer not running linux i just get frustrated that it won’t let me do things properly
LET ME OPEN A TERMINAL AND USE REGULAR COMMANDS YOU OVERBUILT TOASTER
Assuming you don’t need a windows only application for your workflow (admittedly this isn’t very common), it’s really just a matter of getting used to it. There’s plenty of easy to use distros out there, such as Linux “I’m not buying my grandma a new computer” Mint.
“I got the confidence to really jump into Linux after the Steam Deck.”
I offered my son (16) to get him an “office” computer for his room so he can do homework and emails and junk. He said he felt so comfortable with Linux because of the Steam Deck and we could instead just get a nicer monitor and a docking station and he will use the Deck as a gaming machine AND office workstation whenever our main computer (also Linux) is busy
I think it should be really clear to everyone now that the Steam Deck is exactly the kind of thing that Linux needs: nice hardware with a well-integrated OS that is designed to be user-friendly and has some guardrails to prevent you from breaking it.
Some of my fav quotes:
“Ads in an operating system that you’ve paid for from a company that owns ridiculous amounts of money is so offensive.”
“data, it’s like the new gold to people”
“I got the confidence to really jump into Linux after the Steam Deck.”
[regarding the terminal] “You just see text going across the screen, they’re working at lightning speeds.”
“I’m kissing convenience goodbye, I just want control.”
He is in for a surprise when he realizes GNU/Linux is much more convenient than Winblows.
Arguable
I don’t think it’s really much different. What makes windows feel more convenient is that everyone generally learns how to use it first. I think if you took a person that is not familiar with either, they would be able to figure out both OS at around the same time.
it really just depends on what hardware you are on. For example my Dell pribter was plug and play on windows . It took me 6 hours to get it to work on Linux.
This. In my recent experience on one laptop. Arch (Endevour OS btw) installed fine.
But LMDE would not boot. I got a system disk missing error every time after install. So much playing with EUFI settings in BIOS, boot back to live disl, multiple re installs, GRUB repair, remake the ISO (ISO was fine, installed on another PC with no issues). Gave up. Just could not boot to the OS.
Install normal mint. No issues.
And past the install? Bluetooth dongle works fine on arch, but so many issues on mint.
WiFi dongle A works on arch, but not mint. WiFI dongle B dosenr work on arch but does work on mint. Took me a while to work thst one out.
Headphpnes have some weird echo back to me when mic is on. Use pipewire config from archwiki. Worked, but reduced qualoty. Tried a few other configs. Didn’t work. Must have broke something coz now the original config dosnt work. So will just deal with echo.
0 of these issues on windows. And 0 likely your regular user can easily swap to Linux.
Will stay on arch tho. Fuck
spezwindows.Maybe it’s just me, I always had issues with Ubuntu and Debian based distros that I didn’t have with Arch based distros. Why do people say Arch is harder? That was never my experience. I’ve been using endeavorOS and it’s been pretty great.
Arch does tend to keep packages as close to upstream as possible, which can be both a good and bad thing. Sway not binding to
graphical-session.targetby default is a little strange for example. Other distros also save a first-time user a great deal of configuration for things they probably don’t care about as well. Going through Fedora’s install and finding out that disk encryption and SELinux were configured OOTB was very nice to see personally. On the other hand Arch’s installation (w/o archinstall) has you choosing a bootloader, audio server, display manager, etc. Nothing arduous and I like it, but definitely not for everyoneThis is all eliminated by spinoffs of course, but even there users have the option to run random scripts/AUR packages without vetting them. Also doesn’t help that the most popular Arch-based distro for a while (Manjaro) was pretty flaky and generally incompatible with the AUR (despite saying otherwise), leading to many people saying “that’s just Arch” and swearing off the parent project as well
I used Manjaro for about a year and I never will again. Things just seemed to break seemingly without explanation. I switched to endeavourOS and have been using it for over 2 years. I haven’t had any where near the number of issues with eos as I did with Manjaro. It just seems so much more stable. Maybe it’s just me or my hardware configuration or something.
For me it’s the wiki. Arch just explaining so simply. Searching an issue for LMDE just lead to forums. And the Debian or Ubuntu wikis don’t seem as good as arch.
Plus must searches for <other distro> issue seem to lead to forums and random “run this code”. All arch searches led back to the Wiki. All hail the wiki.
But srsly. I feel like I’m LEARNING Linux with arch. Rather than just running fixes for the other distros.
It really comes down to if you are trying to use newer hardware or not. Debian based systems usually run fine out of the box on older systems.
For newer hardware your going to want new drivers and kernel versions which you get with a rolling release distro.
I just installed endeavor an hour ago. I switched from kubuntu. I love the style of the is and arch programs seem to work better out of the box compared to Debian.
True, meanwhile my HP printer had a hell of a time trying to work on windows much less finding an actual downlosd for the scanner tool on HP’s websitr for a printer ovrr 5 years old and on Linux I typed
yay HP,1, then I was ready to print and scan.Plus KDE discover is the convenience if the Microsoft store was actually good.
Settings are ACTUALLY in setting instead of being split between settings, control panel, individual tool auto diagnoses, powershell, and registry edits.
KDEconnect works seamlessly and I can also locate my phone if I lost it in the house.
Yep, it really just comes down to complete luck that there are drivers in the kernel for your hardware. As another example, my Lenovo Legion sucks at running Linux out of the box. The webcam is terrible, it never suspends correctly, outputting to a monitor is incredibly painful. Meanwhile my wife’s thinkpad runs popos perfectly. Even the touchscreen works.
I had a printer I could not in my life make work on a Windows PC (2017). Then I tried my Ubuntu laptop, no drivers installed, just worked.
Fuck Windows.
at this point i have utterly forgotten how windows works and when placed in front of a computer not running linux i just get frustrated that it won’t let me do things properly
LET ME OPEN A TERMINAL AND USE REGULAR COMMANDS YOU OVERBUILT TOASTER
Assuming you don’t need a windows only application for your workflow (admittedly this isn’t very common), it’s really just a matter of getting used to it. There’s plenty of easy to use distros out there, such as Linux “I’m not buying my grandma a new computer” Mint.
If you go immutable then I really don’t think it is unless you need niche software
Niche software like the Microsoft suite? It all depends on the environment you use it in I think
Libreoffice is fine unless you’re doing something niche, so yes
HAHAHAHHAHA
where can I get a NixOS Flare?
That’s the arch of immutables, fedora kinoite is a much better example
It’s as complicated as you make it to be, and that’s gonna vary WILDLY per person lmao
Everything is complicated if you aren’t willing to commit/learn.
If you learn how to do a complicated thing, it’s still complicated.
I’d argue this is a wash. Linux is more convenient in many ways but Windows is in others.
Precisely… which means switching to Linux is not inherently less convenient than windows
I offered my son (16) to get him an “office” computer for his room so he can do homework and emails and junk. He said he felt so comfortable with Linux because of the Steam Deck and we could instead just get a nicer monitor and a docking station and he will use the Deck as a gaming machine AND office workstation whenever our main computer (also Linux) is busy
I think it should be really clear to everyone now that the Steam Deck is exactly the kind of thing that Linux needs: nice hardware with a well-integrated OS that is designed to be user-friendly and has some guardrails to prevent you from breaking it.