It is kind of baffling to me that many don’t seem to have an analysis/understanding of maga beyond “stupidity and racism”.
Of course that’s a big part, but by itself, it’s only scratching the surface?
And you don’t have sympathy for Trump voters turning cloak? Seriously? I hope you can at least pretend because you aren’t getting out of this mess without working with people like that. Else you might as well give up now.
I think we should have sympathy. Better late than never, and nothing will ever change if people aren’t allowed to learn and grow.
MAGA is a community, and a lot of MAGAtards are only there for the community. If progressives aren’t willing to accept personal growth, there is no reason for them to grow.
Progressives need to take the high road and welcome the MAGAts who have finally seen the light.
An eye for an eye only creates blindness. Someone needs to stop the cycle.
It’s very likely that they don’t learn what they aren’t thaught. You don’t teach anything if there is no contact, and moments like this are opportunities for contact.
Yesyes, I get it, it’s not your job to teach them. The issue is though that nobody else will, except of course propagandists on the right who are happy to teach them.
The sentiment of your post is commendable, but I’m skeptical that any magats are “finally seeing the light”. They’ve been fully supportive of bigotry and facsism for a decade now. I’m relieved that support for trump is beginning to dwindle, but it’s not because those supporters are now becoming more progressive. Its because their gas prices have gone up. They will blindly continue to vote red in the future.
How’d that work out with the Confederacy? Did turning the other cheek teach them the error of their ways? Or did it just create a society that makes excuses to justify its racist “heritage”?
You are explicitly describing a situation where the people didn’t actually change at all. If you remember the whole Reconstruction period it was basically white Southerners refusing to change and waiting the north out. As soon as the north gave up they quickly undid as much as possible.
Fucking miles different than someone actually chaning their mind or regretting their past actions. The south did neither
My point is, they won’t regret anything. A few might…for a minute. And then they’ll go right back to voting whichever way Fox News and Steve Bannon tell them to. All the same people who are currently pulling their strings right now, will just wait a little while and then start doing it all over again, once the heat is off.
Which makes it exactly the same as what happened after the last civil war…which you described quite well. Trust me…that’s exactly how it will play out again, unless some serious changes are made to US society.
Honestly the view of its impossible for people to change is just as stubborn as most conservativism. If we reject the possibility for people to change how do we fix any of this? Do we need to kill about 50% of the population?
This idea of pushing away those that come to their senses only helps the conservatives achieve their goals by forcing them back to their old views.
It’s odd to me that conservative media celebrates converts and uses that to feed their propaganda machine which then increases the “converts”. But then we’re going to go out of our way to help them retain people by pushing them away when they start to doubt the propaganda.
You say “people change”. But, they don’t. Not really anyway.
This is exactly why history will always end up repeating itself. Because people never fucking learn. We’re literally running through the same cycle, over and over again, just with slight variations on the same theme…and folks like yourself will always convince yourself that the best thing to do is exactly the same thing we did the last time, hoping for different results.
If we assume people can’t change, which is bullshit you believe people can change but you just falsely assume they can only change in one direction, what’s your solution?
If we believe your people cannot, there is no solution besides a whole lot of death or giving up entirely.
Also I have no interest of “doing the same thing as last time”. If we go back to the Confederacy every memeber of their government should have hanged. In modern times we should actually bring our public officals to trial for their crimes.
We need major changes to our society as a whole. That’s only going to happen if we get people to switch sides to achieve a majority. Or the less savory option of trying to murder the other half of the population while they try to do the same
It’s insane to believe we can change a system and not change its people
Btw human history isn’t the past 150 years of American politics. People have an immense capacity to change and learn.
It’s important to welcome people leaving cults, no matter how dumb it looks that they were in the cult in the first place. The main reason they were there is community, and if they don’t find a welcoming community outside, they’ll go right back in.
Rehabilitation of people willing to forgo MAGA and the conservatism that fuels it is one thing, but quotes like “He’s a con man, a liar, doesn’t keep his promises” illustrate that some voters haven’t had a change of heart about MAGA policies, just on Trump’s ability to actually deliver on them.
Depends on what they’re referencing. Some people only vote on single issues for some reason. Is he mad that Trump said “no new wars” and did the opposite? Or is he mad that Trump hasn’t finished the border wall?
This is a good point. Con men target people who have been conned in the past, because the person’s personality hasn’t changed — they’re still an easy mark with the same levers that worked last time.
I don’t have any sympathy for a voter dumb enough and conservative enough to vote for Trump three times in a row.
It is kind of baffling to me that many don’t seem to have an analysis/understanding of maga beyond “stupidity and racism”.
Of course that’s a big part, but by itself, it’s only scratching the surface?
And you don’t have sympathy for Trump voters turning cloak? Seriously? I hope you can at least pretend because you aren’t getting out of this mess without working with people like that. Else you might as well give up now.
Lock the gate on the way back in we don’t want any more of you fuckers getting out.
“We were trying to tell you for the last decade that it was a cult. How about it you try listening for a few minutes?”
Good point. Fuck learning about why it took so long, fuck trying to deprogram them, get your moment of “told you so”.
I think we should have sympathy. Better late than never, and nothing will ever change if people aren’t allowed to learn and grow.
MAGA is a community, and a lot of MAGAtards are only there for the community. If progressives aren’t willing to accept personal growth, there is no reason for them to grow.
Progressives need to take the high road and welcome the MAGAts who have finally seen the light.
An eye for an eye only creates blindness. Someone needs to stop the cycle.
Sympathy for what though? He’s not a victim, so what is there to sympathiz about?
It’s a community in the same way fans of a TV show are. Parasocial at most. Shared imbecility, more probably.
Did he actually learn anything or is he just going to vote for the next fascist with an R next to their name?
It’s very likely that they don’t learn what they aren’t thaught. You don’t teach anything if there is no contact, and moments like this are opportunities for contact.
Yesyes, I get it, it’s not your job to teach them. The issue is though that nobody else will, except of course propagandists on the right who are happy to teach them.
The sentiment of your post is commendable, but I’m skeptical that any magats are “finally seeing the light”. They’ve been fully supportive of bigotry and facsism for a decade now. I’m relieved that support for trump is beginning to dwindle, but it’s not because those supporters are now becoming more progressive. Its because their gas prices have gone up. They will blindly continue to vote red in the future.
deleted by creator
How’d that work out with the Confederacy? Did turning the other cheek teach them the error of their ways? Or did it just create a society that makes excuses to justify its racist “heritage”?
You are explicitly describing a situation where the people didn’t actually change at all. If you remember the whole Reconstruction period it was basically white Southerners refusing to change and waiting the north out. As soon as the north gave up they quickly undid as much as possible.
Fucking miles different than someone actually chaning their mind or regretting their past actions. The south did neither
My point is, they won’t regret anything. A few might…for a minute. And then they’ll go right back to voting whichever way Fox News and Steve Bannon tell them to. All the same people who are currently pulling their strings right now, will just wait a little while and then start doing it all over again, once the heat is off.
Which makes it exactly the same as what happened after the last civil war…which you described quite well. Trust me…that’s exactly how it will play out again, unless some serious changes are made to US society.
People do change, but you have to let it.
Honestly the view of its impossible for people to change is just as stubborn as most conservativism. If we reject the possibility for people to change how do we fix any of this? Do we need to kill about 50% of the population?
This idea of pushing away those that come to their senses only helps the conservatives achieve their goals by forcing them back to their old views.
It’s odd to me that conservative media celebrates converts and uses that to feed their propaganda machine which then increases the “converts”. But then we’re going to go out of our way to help them retain people by pushing them away when they start to doubt the propaganda.
You say “people change”. But, they don’t. Not really anyway.
This is exactly why history will always end up repeating itself. Because people never fucking learn. We’re literally running through the same cycle, over and over again, just with slight variations on the same theme…and folks like yourself will always convince yourself that the best thing to do is exactly the same thing we did the last time, hoping for different results.
It’s the definition of insanity.
If we assume people can’t change, which is bullshit you believe people can change but you just falsely assume they can only change in one direction, what’s your solution?
If we believe your people cannot, there is no solution besides a whole lot of death or giving up entirely.
Also I have no interest of “doing the same thing as last time”. If we go back to the Confederacy every memeber of their government should have hanged. In modern times we should actually bring our public officals to trial for their crimes.
We need major changes to our society as a whole. That’s only going to happen if we get people to switch sides to achieve a majority. Or the less savory option of trying to murder the other half of the population while they try to do the same
It’s insane to believe we can change a system and not change its people
Btw human history isn’t the past 150 years of American politics. People have an immense capacity to change and learn.
I don’t know that a Trump voter holds the same culpability as a Confederate soldier.
More.
That’s only because the civil war hasn’t started yet.
Cautiously optimistic, until they turncoat on us.
It’s important to welcome people leaving cults, no matter how dumb it looks that they were in the cult in the first place. The main reason they were there is community, and if they don’t find a welcoming community outside, they’ll go right back in.
Rehabilitation of people willing to forgo MAGA and the conservatism that fuels it is one thing, but quotes like “He’s a con man, a liar, doesn’t keep his promises” illustrate that some voters haven’t had a change of heart about MAGA policies, just on Trump’s ability to actually deliver on them.
Depends on what they’re referencing. Some people only vote on single issues for some reason. Is he mad that Trump said “no new wars” and did the opposite? Or is he mad that Trump hasn’t finished the border wall?
Context matters a lot
If they truly have learned maybe they can be saved, but god damn how out of touch would you have to be to only just now be figuring this out?
I’m glad they finally figured it out, but I’m definitely still going to give them shit about being fooled 3 times in a row.
And I’m also not going to trust them as far as I can throw them when it comes to not getting fooled a 4th time.
This is a good point. Con men target people who have been conned in the past, because the person’s personality hasn’t changed — they’re still an easy mark with the same levers that worked last time.
“DO YOU WANT THIS TO BE REAL OR NOT”
No but when’s my reset point?