WASHINGTON (TND) — Dr.Jill Stein, who is a Green Party presidential candidate, has selected Professor Butch Ware as her vice-presidential running mate.
WASHINGTON (TND) — Dr.Jill Stein, who is a Green Party presidential candidate, has selected Professor Butch Ware as her vice-presidential running mate.
Its neither. Trump or Harris will win. They both have flaws, but one of them has significantly more including wanting to be a dictator and removing the right to vote going forward. The notion that a 3rd party vote dilutes is based in strategic voting. We have a system that benefits only 2 teams, refusal to work within that 2 team system without first erecting groundwork to actually have a chance at winning is either: 1) removing votes from the main candidate of those 2 teams you’d rather see prevail over the other or 2) not voting against the candidate you’d most like to see fail. It didn’t matter which of those is the case, they are both diluting.
They are. The system is erected such that only a member of one of the 2 major parties will actually win the presidency. Therefore only votes for them actually matter.
It’s not. First past the post only helps the dominate parties. They are the only ones that stand a chance at winning and they are the only ones who actually win. This results in a majority of the electorate compromising somewhere to settle on a less ideal candidate. Ranked choice voting and proportional representation with a parliamentary system of government is significantly better at representing the diverse views of the electorate.
That’s fine. Your preferred candidate won’t win and you will not be contributing to choosing a candidate that more closely aligns with your views than the other.
No it doesn’t. Democracy thrives on having access to the polls. Outcomes of democracy thrive on them being educated, voting critically, and for their best interests, and having proportional representation.
Some people believing women shouldn’t have control of their bodies, that they belong naked, standing in the kitchen without the right to vote, some people believing women should have autonomy and suffrage, some people believing women should have autonomy, but not the right to vote, and some people believing that a man should have 1 vote for him and all his dependents are a diverse selection of thoughts. But those thoughts and the people that hold them are not causing democracy to thrive.
All told there are tons of problems with our electoral system from the EC to paid ballot access for minor parties, first past the post, unlimited money, 2 year campaign cycle, the people that actually get nominated, strategic drawing of maps, culling voters from registrations, states leaving ERIC, and more, but those problems benefit a 2 party system and refusing to participate in that does not benefit your cause. What voting a 3rd party does do is get them closer to the 5% cutoff for access to federal Presidential Election Campaign Funds in their next election and signal a vehement opposition to some policy. However, that signal is easily ignored with such a low turnout.
So how do you get a third party presidential candidate to win? By actually building a 3rd party first. Run candidates in local elections, get them on school boards and mayorships. Start locally, build a following and work up to state. Start winning an appreciable percent of state legislature seats and move on to congressional seats. Once the American people are familiar with you as a “party” who actually is involved politically and demands a significant amount of real-estate on the hill and in their states and not simply as a “fringe party” taking a crap shot at power they will start to view your party as actually having a chance to win the presidency, they might actually vote for you in no small part, and you eventually can work your way to an actual victory.
Vote for who you want. If it’s not one of the main candidates that may be ideological and even admirable, but right now it’s ineffective. I’ll be voting to reduce the chances of Trump winning office, because I actually want my vote to matter in future elections.
Exactly this. These cicada-like independents and 3rd parties that pop up every four years to run for POTUS accomplish absolutely nothing, other than acting as a spoiler to one or both the two main parties. Some, like JFK, are acting in an ego-driven fantasy world with their best possible outcome being bribed with a job or money to drop out of the race, while others such as Stein, are intended specifically to achieve a spoiler effect targeted to pull votes away from one of the two dominant parties by playing on wish-fulfillment fantasies of susceptible people.
The only way to achieve real political power in our US system is to either (a) do as you suggest and put in the hard work over years to build up a viable party from the ground up to get large and strong enough to replace one of the Big Two at the top, or (b) take over one of the Big Two from within, as MAGA has done with the Republican party, which is certainly faster. I’ve gone into how the left can do something similar with the Democratic party in other posts.
I have no doubt.
Which I don’t practice nor believe in.
And, in my opinion, access to more than 2 political parties.
According to YOU. I mean, just accept that some people don’t believe the same way you do. And if there are more of them that vote for their candidate, than yours, then that’s how the American voting system goes.
I personally disagree with their line of thought, but again, if there are more of them than me, and their candidate wins, then I just continue voting for who I think best alignes with my values.
You have to understand, that they think the EXACT same way as you do. They think that YOU are wrong. Just because YOU believe in all of this, doesn’t invalidate the fact that they do not believe you.
If democrats are that scared of Trump winning, then they should pic a candidate strong enough to over come his and any third party votes. Also maybe they shouldn’t have waited till last minute to make Biden step down.
Having said that, Harris is going to win anyway, so I personally think you should relax. But it’s your right to feel however you want. Also, it’s other voters’ right to feel however they want.
I will, thank you. And I respect and support your right to vote for who you want.
There’s a lot more to my post that you neglected to address, so I’ll just stick to your reply. I am writing this followup not in an attempt to convince you, but to seek clarity and understanding; unfortunately my rhetoric is often not perceived that way, though I do mean it earnestly.
Do you have a preference of the two? Are you okay with either of them winning?
What do you mean by that? I practice voting strategically, it’s certainly a thing that exists. Are you saying you believe people in general shouldn’t or do you really mean you believe there is no such thing? Are you also positing that you still believe it is based in fear?
What are you talking about? I listed a diverse selection of thoughts then stated truthfully that they were diverse. Is your fault found in my understanding that those thoughts are not causing democracy to thrive? People living under dictatorships, authoritarian regimes, and week democracies do not necessarily think in unison. People the world over have different thoughts and opinions even within their own communities and ruling structures. That doesn’t cause democracy to spontaneously arise or even thrive. The distinction between democracy and other ruling structures is the ability of the people to vote. If you want democracy to thrive then the people need to actually be able to vote, not just think differently.
I fully understand that not everyone believes the same things I do, that has nothing to do with the ability for a 3rd party candidate to win.
I fully 100% agree. I just also expect that people will vote in their best interests, but recognize they don’t necessarily, and I don’t understand why that is. Voting for a 3rd party candidate does nothing for you, while voting for a major party candidate possibly can do something for you. I am a gay leftist atheist. One of the major candidates doesn’t want me to be able to vote (or potentially live) the other one isn’t immediately dismissive of who I am and can be reasoned with. If I vote for the former I am contributing to active oppression against me. If I vote for the latter I am not. If I vote for someone (or no one) else I am complicit in whatever happens to me. I don’t know you. I’m sure there is some category that means a lot to you and that you see Dr. Stein recognizing, but she will not be able to act on that, whereas a major candidate will.
Well said
When I say I don’t believe in it, I mean I don’t believe in DOING it. Kind of like amish don’t belive in grounded electricity. Meaning, obviously the know it exists, but the choose not to use it.
So no, I don’t believe in voting strategically. Maybe it’s something you want to do. I don’t. So I won’t.
I’m talking about the fact that people don’t necessarily believe in the same things you do. You do realize that half of the country votes for Trump because they actually LIKE him and his policies, right? They aren’t doing it, to just “show the libs.”
As strange as it may seem to this Lemmy community, there are people who like Trump and what he stands for. I don’t. But that doesn’t make it any less valid that they do. I respect their rights to think that.
And YOU believe that is what Trump will create. Many people DON’T think that. You do realize lots of people don’t think that Trump is (or wants) a dictatorship, right.
YOU think that. Many in your social circle think that. But not everyone does.
I personally don’t like Trump. I won’t be voting for him. But I do not think that a Trump win means we have “dictatorship.” I don’t. And you can spare your opinions and your examples. I respect your right to have your opinion, but I don’t agree. That’s it.
In YOUR opinion. But it does do something for me in MY opinion. I am proudly voting 3rd party. Accept it. Disagree with it, but accept it.
I like Jill Stein, and I’m voting for her. We can move on.
The world won’t end if Harris wins. The world won’t end if Trump wins. Nor will America. I promise.
Not interested in the truth or any sort of discussion. Only in spreading his narrative.