i have recently gotten a harsh response from lemmy about this, but i am 100% with Ms Freeman on this. i WILL NOT vote for Biden and i would sooner die than vote for Trump.
i absolutely think this is a valid response to our current situation.
You ARE voting for Trump. You wont accept it, but a 3rd party vote supports the GOP candidate. Your feelings might be spared from not having to check that Biden box but you are absolutely 100% helping Trump. Not trying to be harsh, that’s simply how math works in a first past the post voting system.
All this comes off as is petulant, ignorant, and unimaginative.
It’s unimaginative because nobody who spends even half a minute thinking about the consequences of the election could come away believing there would be no little to difference between the two outcomes.
It’s ignorant because it displays a lack of understanding about how the FPTP US election system works.
It’s petulant because it’s akin to demanding the system work for you, rather than you working within the system. You’re refusing to participate in a choice that will affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people just because a system that hundreds of millions of people work to produce doesn’t function the way you want it to.
So we have been saying this since I was a kid, a third party is a wasted vote. Next time around will be our chance! Well. When? We just going to always push off voting third party until democrats stop hiding and go full republican?
There has to be a point where we all actively decide to vote third party. These websites are the perfect place for that oppurtunity as well. Why have we not seen any individuals step up (reddit in the past) on lemmy? Why have we not actually started gofundme to support a non-affiliated candidate?
We have the power, and continuing to tell people “just wait! Or we are all fucked!” Will continue perpetually.
So we have been saying this since I was a kid, a third party is a wasted vote. Next time around will be our chance! Well. When? We just going to always push off voting third party until democrats stop hiding and go full republican?
This is why I included “ignorant” among the list of terms in my previous comment. I’m not using it as an insult; yours is a popular opinion, but it displays a fundamental lack of understanding about how the US election system works.
A third party is a wasted vote, because that’s literally how the system works. It’s not something people say to discourage you from voting or to keep the Big Two in power. It’s just a fact of the rules of the game. Voting third party in hopes that it will change the game is as useful as picking up the soccer ball with your hands in hopes that maybe this time the ref will allow it. The rules just don’t allow for that.
To be clear, I’m not saying this because I like the system. I’m not defending the system. I’m just highlighting the truth of it. The rules we have are crap, designed by people hundreds of years ago who didn’t know any better. It was the best they had at the time, and here we are 250 years later desperately in need of a rules update… But that still doesn’t change the rules!
In our FPTP system, one of the Big Two parties will win. Period. If you want that to change (I know I do), the time to do that is in between election cycles. You will never ever change the political system by miraculously voting in a 3rd party. Even if you could somehow get 100% of the country to unanimously vote for a 3rd party president, all you would have is a lame duck president. You would not change the makeup of the legislature, which is the part of our government responsible for making the rules. So if you want to change those rules, you do so through the legislature, not by electing an outsider president. You need to spend the period in between election cycles petitioning, writing, calling, and contacting your legislative representatives every way possible to convince them to support election reform measures. Then and only then will there be meaningful discussion about changing the rules into something better; something where you can actually vote your heart or for the person who best represents your views rather than just a person from party A or B. In other words, if you want to play a version of soccer where you can use your hands, the time to do that is before you play, not mid-game. The same goes for elections.
If you don’t believe me, just look into how US elections work. There are so many great explanations about the math and the game theory that makes them function the way they do. Third parties are a wasted vote, not because of any cynicism or pessimism or nihilism; they are because the math literally works out that way. Worse, any vote for a third party candidate actually aids the candidate you dislike. That is to day, if you’d rather Biden beat Trump, your vote for candidate C mathematically actually aids Trump. So yes, third party candidates really do spoil the election, and third party votes are actually shooting yourself in the foot.
So let’s change the system, and let’s do it the only way laws get changed in this country: by petitioning our representatives. Not by pinning our hopes on a zero-chance candidate and actually supporting the worse candidate by wasting our vote.
You must really like Trump. GOP voters will not vote 3rd party. And they ALWAYS show up to vote. So go ahead, throw your vote away. Help give Trump the boost he needs.
i have recently gotten a harsh response from lemmy about this, but i am 100% with Ms Freeman on this. i WILL NOT vote for Biden and i would sooner die than vote for Trump.
i absolutely think this is a valid response to our current situation.
You’re an idiot if you truly believe that.
You ARE voting for Trump. You wont accept it, but a 3rd party vote supports the GOP candidate. Your feelings might be spared from not having to check that Biden box but you are absolutely 100% helping Trump. Not trying to be harsh, that’s simply how math works in a first past the post voting system.
All this comes off as is petulant, ignorant, and unimaginative.
It’s unimaginative because nobody who spends even half a minute thinking about the consequences of the election could come away believing there would be no little to difference between the two outcomes.
It’s ignorant because it displays a lack of understanding about how the FPTP US election system works.
It’s petulant because it’s akin to demanding the system work for you, rather than you working within the system. You’re refusing to participate in a choice that will affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people just because a system that hundreds of millions of people work to produce doesn’t function the way you want it to.
So we have been saying this since I was a kid, a third party is a wasted vote. Next time around will be our chance! Well. When? We just going to always push off voting third party until democrats stop hiding and go full republican?
There has to be a point where we all actively decide to vote third party. These websites are the perfect place for that oppurtunity as well. Why have we not seen any individuals step up (reddit in the past) on lemmy? Why have we not actually started gofundme to support a non-affiliated candidate?
We have the power, and continuing to tell people “just wait! Or we are all fucked!” Will continue perpetually.
This is why I included “ignorant” among the list of terms in my previous comment. I’m not using it as an insult; yours is a popular opinion, but it displays a fundamental lack of understanding about how the US election system works.
A third party is a wasted vote, because that’s literally how the system works. It’s not something people say to discourage you from voting or to keep the Big Two in power. It’s just a fact of the rules of the game. Voting third party in hopes that it will change the game is as useful as picking up the soccer ball with your hands in hopes that maybe this time the ref will allow it. The rules just don’t allow for that.
To be clear, I’m not saying this because I like the system. I’m not defending the system. I’m just highlighting the truth of it. The rules we have are crap, designed by people hundreds of years ago who didn’t know any better. It was the best they had at the time, and here we are 250 years later desperately in need of a rules update… But that still doesn’t change the rules!
In our FPTP system, one of the Big Two parties will win. Period. If you want that to change (I know I do), the time to do that is in between election cycles. You will never ever change the political system by miraculously voting in a 3rd party. Even if you could somehow get 100% of the country to unanimously vote for a 3rd party president, all you would have is a lame duck president. You would not change the makeup of the legislature, which is the part of our government responsible for making the rules. So if you want to change those rules, you do so through the legislature, not by electing an outsider president. You need to spend the period in between election cycles petitioning, writing, calling, and contacting your legislative representatives every way possible to convince them to support election reform measures. Then and only then will there be meaningful discussion about changing the rules into something better; something where you can actually vote your heart or for the person who best represents your views rather than just a person from party A or B. In other words, if you want to play a version of soccer where you can use your hands, the time to do that is before you play, not mid-game. The same goes for elections.
If you don’t believe me, just look into how US elections work. There are so many great explanations about the math and the game theory that makes them function the way they do. Third parties are a wasted vote, not because of any cynicism or pessimism or nihilism; they are because the math literally works out that way. Worse, any vote for a third party candidate actually aids the candidate you dislike. That is to day, if you’d rather Biden beat Trump, your vote for candidate C mathematically actually aids Trump. So yes, third party candidates really do spoil the election, and third party votes are actually shooting yourself in the foot.
So let’s change the system, and let’s do it the only way laws get changed in this country: by petitioning our representatives. Not by pinning our hopes on a zero-chance candidate and actually supporting the worse candidate by wasting our vote.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this up. I will be rethinking the way I see third party votes from now on.
Thanks for taking the time to read it and for responding!
Yeah but that sounds like work /s
Shockingly, it takes more to revolutionize a country of 320 million people than casting a single protest vote for Jill Stein every 4 years.
The folks whining the most about Biden also seem to be the least civic-minded.
You must really like Trump. GOP voters will not vote 3rd party. And they ALWAYS show up to vote. So go ahead, throw your vote away. Help give Trump the boost he needs.