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- technology@lemmy.ml
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- linux@lemmy.ml
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This is actually awesome to see. Sadly the main thing holding Linux back is still just momentum. And for a lot of people MS word. Even if the free suites are pretty good nowadays.
There are many things which are holding mass Linux adoption: hardware comparability, too many distros, hard to find and install software (no one cares about your package manager), lack of proprietary software, the list goes on. A lot of that could be resolved by third party developers, but Linux is a moving target and software development is a nightmare.
I was on Slashdot circa 1998 and people back then kept saying mainstream adoption was right around the corner. Meanwhile, 25 years later, the core barriers to entry have yet to be addressed. But Linux is gonna hit the mainstream any day now!
I think the reason for that disconnect is that what a typical Linux user wants is very different from the mainstream desktop user. Linux users want flexibility and freedom, and they don’t mind getting their hands dirty and doing a little research to get there. They’re also patient with setbacks because they believe in FOSS and their privacy.
Now, the Steam Deck’s success, I think, happens in spite of Linux. It’s a closed environnement with a very specific target hardware, so none of the usual problems with a desktop distro are gonna show up. And I’m not even sure that many Deck users realize they’re running games on Linux, to be honest. The Steam wrapper is really its own thing.
I do wish Linux would make serious headway in the desktop space… It’s just frustrating to see that, 25 years on, the main strategy remains crossing fingers and whispering “any day now.”
But a lot of things changed in these years. Installing software, for example, became so easy using the gnome store, that it lowered a lot the entry barrier.
The few times I find myself using windows, I realize it’s not easy to use, as many claim. I believe it’s mostly a matter of a computer culture that created around it, and changing cultural traits is really hard
Nothing has really changed. Imagine a typical user. You give them Linux, the user plugs their Blu Ray to watch a movie, distro complains about freedom and DRM, the user throws Linux away.
No one gives a shit about open source philosophy or other esoteric bullshit, people just need to do cool stuff, do their jobs and watch movies. Gnome store is useless. Come back once I can install Photoshop on Linux directly from Adobe Web site.
With all the respect, to deny the progress we had in the last decade seems a bit stubbornish and counterproductive.
In the 2000s, uo to early 2010s, not even a basic non techy user could properly use linux without assistance, and nowadays, they can use it normally. Most of them just need a working browser and a good UI.
I don’t say that out of nowhere. I’ve been doing some work in initiatives for digital inclusion in my country, and we’re having great results with linux nowadays, while it was impossible some years ago.
There’s still a lot that needs improvement, but we’re nowhere near the state we were just one decade ago.
Which progress? None of the professional software is available for Linux still, you still can’t watch 4K Netflix on Linux, etc, etc.
Accurate. I used various Linux distros as my daily driver for 15 years (2004-2019), and I swear things are going backwards. I held out a little hope that Ubuntu was going to change everything for the better, but things aren’t getting any better. I bought a laptop from System76 in 2018 and had driver issues because the hardware was too new, which I was hoping to avoid by buying from a Linux-first company. Also, why the hell are they still selling laptops with nvidia built in?
The Linux fanboys can deny these problems all they want, but too many still think the only way to use a computer is to make it as hard as possible for Linux to ever become mainstream. Android took off because it has an intuitive GUI in spite of being based on Linux.
You can install mint or Ubuntu on your grandma’s laptop these days and she will have fewer issues than she had on Windows. I game on Linux and 95% of the time i just install and it runs.
I wouldn’t say it’s ready for your average user yet, but to say it’s the same as it’s always been is just incorrect.
Desktop Linux distros are playing catch up. Yeah, you can finally browse the internet, cool stuff! Now go watch 4K on Netflix. Maybe your grandma would be fine today, I don’t know. But a lot of people still need MS Office, for example. A lot of people still need to play DRM protected content. A lot of people still play games with anti-cheat. A lot of people still have printers which don’t work correctly under Linux.
Meanwhile Windows literally has zero issues. For many years now. Or MacOS. Linux will never be ready, because being ready is a moving target.
What should happen is simple: one single distro, all proprietary tech included by default, kernel ABI frozen for a reasonably long time, and user land should have backwards compatibility for at least five years.
Lost it on “Windows with literally 0 issues” lol
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Ok, how about 4K DRM Netflix streaming? Yeah, right…
Agreed on most points, but if you try to do anything unusual on Steam Deck like install Heroic Launcher or get emulators working, you fully realize you are on Linux.
How many Nintendo Switch users install non sanctioned emulators and launchers? No one cares about this stuff, people just want to play games on the go. And Steam Deck delivers exactly that.
Don’t forget accessibility. Vision, motor, etc. sorry but the state of most of that is not so good right now.
Linux is a moving target
Could you clarify what you mean with this?
Not the person you’re replying to, but Linux has long had a policy of “F backwards compatibility” in the userspace. Try running a 10 year old binary on the current version of a distro. Try a 5 year old binary. Chances are, it’s not going to work, or you’re going to go through dependency hell trying to get the correct library versions for that old binary.
But notice how Windows 11 can run a Windows XP app.
That’s the problem. Most users aren’t going to want to compile from source, assuming the software they’re trying to use is even open source. Hell, nvidia users constantly have driver issues because the binary blobs must be updated to continue working after kernel updates. And that’s not to mention all the competing package managers and distro quirks with library versions and naming.
You can run 16 bit Windows 3.0 apps on Windows 10 on compatible hardware. Can I run any Linux application compiled 20+ years ago on any modern distro without any fuckery? No. I can’t even run apps compiled for the latest Arch on the latest Ubuntu, lol. Software development for Linux is a total nightmare.
This is true, but kind of exaggerated. I can’t run some windows 7 apps on Windows 10. I have been able to run some backalley Linux software from an html 1.0 site designed in the 90’s no problem.
On both platforms backwards compatibility is a little hit or miss, but yeah Linux is worse.
Yes, some apps might not run. Yet some Win16 do actually run on Windows 10.
The main thing holding linux back is a lack of federal contracts.
Until schools are issuing Linux machines to staff and students. Until military outposts are run on Linux servers. Until your average federal employee is being issued a Linux machine, Linux will always be 3rd place.
Schools are handing out Linux to students…just not GNU/Linux; a lot of schools opt for Chrome OS which uses the Linux kernel.
Linux is already the market leader in every computing segment except desktops (even mobile when you factor in Android.)
And why are federal contracts being issues out for Linux for general users? Because of lack of Ms office
No it’s because of lobbying. Other countries use LibreOffice.
I mean, LibreOffice is usable, but if I could pay for a linux license of Word or Excel, I would pay for it. The UX is just so much better with feature search/animations/plugin support/etc.
Almost like Libre Office isn’t free!
But yeah, u right
I figured they just meant that people in government jobs don’t like change.
No MS office, no sale!
Honestly Apple sucks for not providing proper support for video games. People buy 3k usd laptops and can’t run videos games on it because of lacking software. I don’t understand how anyone with get invested with their VR when the hardware will be held hostage to whatever the overlords find it fit for.
Apple has absolutely cornered the mobile market, so that’s probably why they don’t seem to be in any hurry to seriously support the PC gaming space.
They tend to focus hard on niches they can overcome, and PC/console gaming is a little too established for them to stick their toes in. They tried with the Pippin and the pre-Halo era of gaming, but it didn’t work out for them.
If the Apple headset takes off, they may start pushing harder for VR game support, but who knows?
Apple has absolutely cornered the mobile market
Is this even true? I thought more people used Android phones?
Perhaps you mean in the US, I hear things are different there.
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I see what you mean, that is very impressive. Still, I think being a successful company still doesn’t give a status of “cornering the market”.
Even in the US it’s not “cornered,” it’s 53% iOS, 45% Android and 1% other.
It’s more useful to look at sales dollars in this context. Apple absolutely dominates in most desirable markets at its chosen price bracket.
Apple might be getting all the profit, but I really wouldn’t compare iOS gamers to Steam gamers. Feels like vastly different use cases for the types of games people buy (unless there’s people out there playing Candy Crush on a deck, which…. Why??)
Mobile game devs are making their games with iOS in mind, because iPhone users are more likely to pay.
Good point. I’m not sure what you’re arguing, though.
Apple has absolutely cornered the mobile market
Can we finally get a proper linux alternative to ios and android? I was researching on linux mobile last week and from what I’ve found it’s infinite times harder to get it to work than a linux pc. I just want a cheap, basic foss phone as a daily driver.
Likewise google has cornered the android market by closely controlling how Google services like the playstore are allowed to be used.
Which has unfortunately led to android requiring the stupid Google feed page on the left, overall lack of performance increases, and stagnated development of new features as many OEMs have dropped out.
I wish linus would stop referring to android as Linux. It has become a blatant rip of FOSS to further google’s interests and is an insult to android’s own history considering just how much more advanced it was than iOS back when it became mainstream.
Not to mention it still runs on ART which is basically just the mobile version of JVM which is still Java which runs like garbage compared to modern standards.
It’s stupid seeing Java wrappers for basic things included with most Linux installs like rsync or ssh.
I would pay serious cash money to see a Linux mobile OS developed but I just don’t see it happening anytime soon. Ubuntu is playing with it, but it’s still very limited and the UI is static AFAIK so you can’t easily change it without recompiling.
They provide lots of support for video games. Graphics support, controller support, everything you’d need
I bought my Macbook for working not for playing. Don’t think anyone who buys a macbook cares that much that they can’t play on it (which I am pretty sure is not true but I don’t care to check how many of my steam games runs on it)
also if you can drop 3+k on a macbook what is dropping another 500 on a PS5?
I agree with you that it’s great for work. I got a MacBook with Apple silicon for $2.5k and it’s been great. The games isn’t that big a deal because A) i have a desktop computer with Linux and can run 98% of games just fine and B) with parallels you can run a lot of Windows games on Mac. Darkest Dungeon for example I play through that
My main complaint is I can’t install Linux on the laptop yet. I know Asahi Linux is working on it but it’s not quite there. It’d be like putting an old engine in a sports car. So I’m stuck with MacOS for now. Not ideal but better than Windows.
Having said all that, a PS5 is not a proper replacement for a PC. Most of the games I play are all strategy games.
why do you want to install linux on a macbook?
MacOS is kind of annoying. Linux gives you a lot more control over the system and I sort of like to micromanage the OS. Still, there are workarounds for a lot of stuff. For example I found a tiling window manager for MacOS.
Ultimately still much better than Windows. MacOS and Linux are actually very similar. There’s brew, a package manager. I have a nice terminal with fish shell. I copied over my neovim config & plug-ins. On the terminal it’s hard to tell most of the time whether you’re using MacOS or Linux.
To have a fully functional OS?
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That’s not the point. It’s a computer that is artificially limited because you’re not the owner of it.
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Lol being so aggressive and defensive doesn’t help your case. Get some help dude, bye 👋
I’m curious how big of a dip there was with macOS when they fully dropped 32 bit support. I’m just one person but a lot of the games I played through steam were older 32 bit games. I don’t think I’ve opened steam on my Mac since that update.
Portal 1 was ported to macOS to celebrate that release, and now I’m pretty sure you can’t play it on M1 Macs. Speaks volumes…
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Apple’s macOS has been the second most popular operating system on the Steam game distribution platform for a long time, but that has now changed.
Linux has surpassed macOS for the number two spot, according to Steam’s July user hardware survey.
Steam regularly asks its users to give an anonymized look at their hardware, and the company makes the information it gathers available each month.
The Steam Deck was first released a while ago, but it only became widely available without a waiting list last October.
It worked with game publishers to see high-profile releases like Resident Evil Village and No Man’s Sky in recent months, and those games run pretty well on modern Macs—certainly better than similar titles on Intel-based Macs with integrated graphics chips.
It also announced a new gaming porting tool in an upcoming version of macOS that works in some ways like Proton, as seen on the Steam Deck.
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Apple has never taken gaming seriously. Their new M chips are not going to hang with dedicated graphics cards in a gaming pc, but they are also not a slouch. Many games will run well. And Nintendo proves you can make fun games on modest hardware. Imagine if the had spent the $1-2 to include a game controller with every AppleTV. They could of built an ecosystem. They need a VP level person to push gaming.
Sure you can, but you must have quite an audience for devs and publishers to care enough to make and optimize games for your platform. Apple does not have it on Mac side as they are too pricey in terms of what they offer performance wise in case of games.
You will get a Windows laptop with much better performance for less money and most gamers (those interested in AAA games at least) usually care about the price, only a niche buys those Alienwares for 10k (and they on the other hand want the best of the best, which Apple also does not offer as their GPUs are at best around 3060/3070 level).
I don’t see Apple changing the price structure anytime soon, so I don’t see their market share changing. With current pricing they are too expensive for an average gamer and are not at the top of performance charts for a rich gamer.
Honestly, with the success of the steam deck, I would’ve thought this would’ve happened quicker
I think people underestimate just how many windows users are on Steam. Even if the Deck sold 5x more than they expected it still wouldn’t make a huge dent in the number of windows users.
Hopefully over time that changes though.
TIL that you could game on a Mac
and there was much rejoicing!
So does this mean there are 12 Linux users to Mac’s just 10? Lol
That’s what it feels like, though I’m sure there were at least a few dozen.
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