• lurklurk@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    why do you assume i am fine with Russia invading anywhere?

    Well you seem fine with russia invading ukraine, and your reasons would cover other european states that also were russia aligned at some point but have since turned west, so it’s natural to assume you’re consistent.

    Do you think it’s a coincidence the invasion happened less than 4 days after the new government was appointed (unconstitutionally)? Why do you think that new government immediately started cooperating with the CIA? It’s because they knew Russia was about to invade them. Because they understood their position.

    So a bit like an abused spouse making plans to escape their abuser? They made plans to support their escape so clearly they deserved what was coming?

    Most of europe is making plans right now and probably cooperating with the CIA to prepare for russia’s next move. I guess we deserve whatever Putin throws at us as we “understand our position”?

    When you defend the russian invasion of ukraine with russian talking points, people are going to assume you’ve fallen for russian propaganda. Actually, that’s the generous interpretation as falling for propaganda can happen to good people.

    • kava@lemmy.world
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      21 hours ago

      we are discussing the material conditions that led up to the war. we have agreed together here that

      a) the ukrainian government had a radical change overnight due to a violent protest/revolution/coup

      b) the old government was pro-russian, the new government was anti-russian

      c) the new ukrainian government realized that Russia was about to invade because of this radical change and therefore they prepared for war by bending the knee to the US

      so let’s circle back to the statement that started this line of inquiry

      “the ukrainian war is in a way a war of independence”

      so instead of going off on tangents all over the place, can we circle back to that statement. now that we have agreed on a) b) and c), does the statement in bold seem true or false to you?

      let’s ignore who has fallen for whatever propaganda and try to agree on a base set of facts and draw some conclusions we can agree on. if you disagree with a) b) or c) please specifically state what part of that statement is false and we can each present evidence and reasoning.

      i fully intend to show to you i am speaking in good faith and i assume you are as well

      • lurklurk@lemmy.world
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        41 minutes ago

        I’m mostly curious if and why you think Russia had the right to invade.

        I don’t agree with your framing of a,b & c.

        A & B: Ukraine has had an election since 2014 so apparently there’s public support for a western friendly government.

        C: preparing to defend yourself from invasion doesn’t justify invading

        So why do you think Russia were right to invade?