- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
The U.S. military unleashed B-2 stealth bombers to target underground bunkers used by Yemen’s Houthi rebels early Thursday, a major escalation in the American response to the rebels’ attacks on Mideast shipping lanes that appeared to be a warning to Iran as well.
While it wasn’t immediately clear how much damage the strikes caused, the attack appeared to be the first use of the B-2 in combat in years and the first time the flying wing targeted sites in Yemen.
In announcing the strikes against the Houthis, who have been attacking ships for months in the Red Sea corridor over the Israel-Hamas warin the Gaza Strip, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin made a point to offer a warning likely heard in Tehran as well.
Is this actually necessary? Like, the point of the B-2 is to be able to penetrate air defenses. Do the Houthis actually have much by way of air defenses?
kagis
This is from six years back, but apparently at the time, Iran was sending them air defense hardware, so that might be it.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/irans-support-houthi-air-defenses-yemen
Also from six years back, and more in-depth:
https://warisboring.com/the-houthis-do-it-yourself-air-defenses-3/
In a quick skim, I don’t see much more-recent than 2018. There’s this from January of 2024:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-says-it-destroyed-houthi-surface-to-air-missile-which-was-prepared-to-launch/
And this from September 2024:
https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-military/2024/09/16/houthi-rebels-claim-they-shot-down-another-us-mq-9-reaper-drone/
Wikipedia doesn’t have a lot on this 358:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/358_missile
I’m guessing, from the fins in the image, the fact that it apparently uses a turbojet engine, and the description as a “loitering munition” that it’s probably not the fastest-moving missile in the world, though.
So, I’m guessing from that that they have some level of surface-to-air weaponry above MANPADS, but it doesn’t sound like a lot of capability.
This was a message to Iran, nothing else.
The US has F35 and F22s in the neighborhood, but rolling out the spirit is meant to flex the global strike capability and remind everyone what they are capable of.
A poster in another forum pointed out that they staged from Tindal in Australia, and that was also a message to China, which can’t reach Tindal with their missiles.
There are probably enemy watching those planes in the region, outside the base watching the planes take off and land.
Calling in the b2 retains suprise.
I doubt that’s the reason… as they could have also just used other standoff weapons then instead of clocking a round the world trip on the B2… but it’s possible.
Rumour has it that they staged from Tindal in Australia - so, not quite a world trip.
Big trip to get there, but not quite as big to attack Yemen from there.
I had to check… that’s still 20.000 km trip. So half way around the world.
These flew from US mainland into Yemen and bombed protected / hidden sites THEN flew back home.
The US gave warning of the attack and likely all the governments in the area saw were birds on their radar screens.
The B-2 was a great choice to deliver a quit messing with commerce message
That’s how the B-2s normally operate. I forget the name of the airbase (I think it starts with a “B”?) but it’s somewhere in the center of the US, and they do their missions straight out of the continental US.
kagis
No, not a “B”. Whiteman Air Force Base.
It is, but thats an important detail about the capability of the B-2 that can be lost without pointing out.
No way the USA keeps their best weapons at a place called Blackman…
Politics aside, that’s the message. Don’t care who you are, what you believe, what you’re fighting for, you cannot fuck with international commerce. That kinda BS hurts all of us, millions of us. That’s the idea behind treating pirates so harshly. Do not fuck with trade because every human society depends on it.
Nah fuck that, they’re only affecting ships dealing with or owned by Israel. I know that’s the message the US is trying to give, but I hope the Houthi’s keep up the good work despite the force of the US against them. Very David vs Goliath where David is trying to stop a genocide and Goliath is an arms dealer for Nazis.
I posted this upthread, but: rumour has it that they staged from Tindal in Australia. Chances are they returned to Tindal before heading home.
It looks like Iran was shipping these 358 missiles to the Houthis at least within the last four years. This shipment was interdicted by the US, but I assume that others have made it:
https://www.dia.mil/Portals/110/Documents/News/Military_Power_Publications/Seized_at_Sea.pdf
I would take a wild guess, but there is also the fact that the US knows a lot more about the vaunted S400 Russian air defence systems thanks to Ukraine, and is now more confident that it can not detect the B2 even if crews are given time to refine and experiment against a real target, and wanted to flex that point.
I don’t think that the Houthis have S-400s (and I can’t imagine that Russia has been providing them to anyone in the last couple years, given as how they have a shortage themselves, and it’s probably one of the more-critical shortages that they face).
I can’t find any reference to the Houthis having them online, at any rate.
I think it’s more of a general confidence that there really is no system capable of detecting it. It flew halfway across the world, and radar systems usually have very high ranges. It wouldn’t necessarily need to be the Houthis that have the system.
If you remember, they didn’t let Turkey buy F-35s because they also had S-400s. They didn’t want it to be “public” knowledge how they match up. The US now knows, hence more confident stealth aircraft deployments.
It’s just my theory anyways.
Necessary in what sense? Necessary to defeat the Houthis? Probably not. Necessary to tell Iran you can fuck with Israel but you better not fuck with the U.S.? Possibly.
If you think you want to be more prepared for a nearer-peer conflict, you might want to get your B2 crews some real combat sorties. Kind of like a college football rent-a-win game before the conference season starts.
It’s a risk because the Spirits are basically capital ships of the air, but it may be a worthwhile trade-off.
Necessary to use the B-2s rather than a more-conventional delivery platform. It isn’t what I’d normally expect to be used in a conflict like this one.
The B-2 was the message, not the bombing.
I suppose that could make some sense. There’s some symbolic value there.
Mind you, this is just me hypothesizing. But I can’t think of a better reason.
deleted by creator
Oh, that’s an interesting thought. That topic was in the news recently relating to the prospect of Israel doing a strike on Iran’s underground nuclear facilities, discussion of whether Israeli warplanes could carry a bomb capable of penetrating Iranian nuclear bunkers. The answer was that they couldn’t carry a huge bomb, but I commented that with the precision of modern guided bombs, they might be able to just strike the same place multiple times, and I saw a subsequent article also raising that possibility, so it’s not just me.
I remember reading an interesting comment on Reddit some years back on how Iran was actually a world leader in UHPC, though, and I have no idea whether they’ve provided that to the Houthis; it might be specific to Iran.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_concrete#Ultra-high-performance_concrete
goes looking for something more-authoritative than a Reddit comment
Yeah, looks like it.
https://www.machinedesign.com/markets/defense/article/21833836/super-concrete-shielding-iranian-nukes
EDIT: The author deleted his comment (unfortunately; I think that it was insightful), but the gist of it was that it raised the point that it might be possible that the B-2 was necessary to carry a large, bunker-busting bomb.
EDIT2: He was also correct when he said that the B-2 was one of the only aircraft capable of carrying some large, penetrating weapon; the MOP appears to fit that bill.
Interesting stuff.
I deleted it since I started doubting what I wrote and didn’t really have the time to look into it.
The New York Times stated that this was specifically asked the Pentagon, given the phrasing of their announcement and got a no-comment. It’s certainly a good thought.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/17/us/politics/houthis-strike-stealth-bombers.html
EDIT: Reading the above, maybe the situation is basically both of the two guesses here combined.
It’s a message to Iran, and the reason that the B-2 specifically is involved in that message is because it can drop very large bunker-busters, which could presumably penetrate Iranian facilities.