Hey, so I just put this part up first because this is the one I urgently and importantly need answered even tho I wrote that hideous text block first (sorry English isn’t my first language ).
1 So the question is I have live booted mint from a USB and everything is working like I can use internet on it , play YouTube video , the sound is working etc . But I’m afraid if I wipe windows and install mint as the main OS and the WiFi stops working I’ll be fucked as I don’t have a second machine except a phone to even fix it . There is no repair shop near and the ones I have to travel to go to charge very high for services and all the people I know are " just phone people" . Is it guaranteed that everything that works on a live USB will also work as the main OS ? Also is there a chance that updates could break the functionalities like WiFi, sound , rendering etc ? Cause I’m a layman and idk how to go about installing the correct kernal manually or some shit . And if its something like WiFi that got fucked I’ll be extra fucked as I don’t have a second device and can’t even do it manually . Also as I said I can’t afford servicing now . Also how do I switch back to windows lol ? I’m just running mint of the USB o don’t know how to go back to windows, do I just pull the USB out ? Then what ? What are the steps on BIOS ? Shit I should’ve probably searched all these up before bit oh well as long as I’m making a post do feel free to answer idk if I should close my lap or not .I read a post on reddit of a guy whose WiFi stopped working after he made it his primary and he said that it worked on live USB . He was running mint too I believe, same as me with no other device .
Do try and reply to 1 (1 is the most important ) , 2 and 3 importantly and 4 you can do or not according to your free time .
2 Also what is the message on mints website talking about having to do something else for newer devices ? I now use an old thinkpad and it isn’t an issue but I’m planning to do an upgrade real soon
3 Also how does the process vary with RISC-V architecture ? Is it there yet ? Any laptop to lookout for or is PC the only way ? I was thinking about switching to risc-v when upgrafing if any company manufactures components or laptop which they do fully as Foss . I am open to building a PC for RISC-V if I can buy full open source parts and if the Linux support is good .
4 I was thinking about switching to Linux for a long time cause I’m paranoid as fuck and always thought I should switch to mint as I’m a layman of all layman and recently got enough time to make it . But then I came to know of zorin OS which too seems to appease to begginers and the conseus between mint and zorin online vary a lot so thought I should just ask here as Lemmy seems to be crawling with Linux users . I mainly just want the drivers or hardware or kernal and all to just work perfectly all the time and not break after updates . I have also heard of some people having kernal issues and having to do it manually in which case I’ll be fucked as I’m not savy . I mainly want good privacy and security . Zorin seem to have a paid version and I’m afraid devs will cut back on other version to promote that more and I have no plan to buy premium as i’m just getting into Linux and don’t wanna make a big commitment maybe if I used it and settle on it I’ll buy to support devs . Also mint is more popular and here to stay kinda shit right ? I don’t care much about looking like windows or running window compatible apps and games I’ll be just happy with the OS I’m choosing running all Linux shit . Also which appstore is better ? I heard mints software repo holds closed and outdated apps and don’t have much idea about Zorin’s . fdroid is one of the reason I grew to love android a place for all the good apps with no blobs and have everything I could ever need from galleries to browser . I would also like a that kinda app store supported distro with similar focus and policies on keeping apk updated , and building without proprietary blobs (like fennec ) and only foss .etc .
Sorry for the block of words , mistake grammer etc . English isn’t my first language.
Honestly, dude.
With all the time and effort in writing this ling post, you could’ve installed Linux. For Linux Mint (and probably Zorin OS), everything you see on the live boot (except the OS installer) should be there on the installed system as well.
If you encountered some issue that renders your system inoperable due to that Linux installation, you can simply use the live boot, which you said works well.
You’ve already received a ton of feedback, so I just to mention that if you ever find yourself without working WiFi, you can connect your cell phone to the computer and enable USB Tethering on the phone (Android and iOS). The computer will automatically detect this as a network connection, and use it, without the need for additional software. This works for Windows and Linux (and possibly macOS, I don’t know).
Thanks
If you have another spare USB stick you can put a Windows iso onto it (I assume you know how to do this if you have a Linux Mint usb) and so if your WiFi stops working then you can boot off of that, however, I have never had any WiFi issues on Linux personally so I don’t think it’s a huge issue, that’s just me though. Linux Mint and Zorin OS are both pretty similar for beginners other than the look of them, so I’d just go with whichever you prefer the look of. I can’t really say much about the app stores though.
I actually don’t know how to make a windows USB lol . I did mints with a help of a YouTube channel and reading a fuckton of docs, guides, discussion . I also don’t have another USB but I could by a cheap one .
Making a Windows USB should be a very similar process to making a Linux Mint one, download to ISO and flash it onto a USB stick using whatever program (I recommend https://etcher.balena.io/) and if you can get another USB stick that could be pretty good or you can always flash Windows onto your Linux Mint USB once you’ve installed Linux Mint. Side Note: You can also Dual Boot Linux and Windows fairly easily so you can use both OSs on the same machine.
- rufus is way better on windows with “debloat windows” options
- Keep in mind windows doesnt ship many drivers in their ISO. So use their shitty media creation tool and hope this will add the needed drivers automatically, at least when creating the media on the same machine
Otherwise, ChrisTitus’ “WinUtil” has “microWin” integrated. A utility that can convert that Windows ISO to a more minimal variant and also allows to include drivers.
Hey as long as you seem to be here can I ask if it is safe to close my lap ? I never learned how to switch back to windows lol . I should’ve probably learned that and now I’m stuck on mint . Is just yanking the USB out gonna solve it ? And then what to do in the BIOS ? The same step as booting into mint ? Any variation ?
Taking out the USB should let you boot into Windows without any BIOS configuration as Linux Mint isn’t installed. When you install an Operating System, it gets put onto your internal storage from the USB, but if it hasn’t been installed yet from the USB it shouldn’t ever touch your Windows Install. In BIOS you can change the order that different devices boot if they are present. eg: USB drive then Hard Drive then SSD then DVD. So if you unplug the USB Drive then it should go onto the next device, the one Windows is installed on so that should boot. Unplugging the USB should be totally safe but turn the computer off first, I can answer your questions, I’m happy to help.
Thanx a lot my guy or gal or whoever you are .
np
Microsoft provides a Media Creation Tool of their website. Download and run it. It’s quite self explanatory.
Ah, didn’t know about this, that sounds like the way to go.
Will check that out .
I installed mint and zorin on virtual machines (theyre easy to set up in windows with virtualbox) and then just put them fullscreen and used em like my actual computer for a bit. Very useful for learning stuff without the commitment of a proper install.
Just gonna jump in and say that those are conflicting goals. „Just work“ means stick to big tech or pay someone to make it work. Nobody else has a motivation to make it work for you.
If you want to know what works best I say for laypeople its something ubuntu based like mint, ubuntu, pop_os.
You can absolutely go nuts with security and privacy but you will have to learn tons of shot before you‘re able to get this to work so dont bother for now.
Good luck though. :)
ZorinOS actually has an option where you pay them 50$ and get a special iso which is supposed to just work.
Thats pretty cool! Thanks for mentioning it.
Really ? Do I pay them online or offline and how does it work ? Does the offer still stand if I first try to do it myself and then mess up and need someone ?
Thats not what I meant.
For 50$ you get a huge iso with “everything” preinstalled and they use the money to work on that and make sure it works on lots of devices and that all the software works together.
Wdym ? One of the reason I jumped on the Linux train is because everyone on lemmy saying nowadays Linux just works, its not like the old times , mint is now more stable than W11 etc .
Linux might “just work” but it highly depends on what you use it for, gaming is getting better but is not going to be nearly as good as on Windows and there are some proprietary software that straight up don’t work such as MS Office and the Adobe Suite. However programming is very good on Linux and general office tasks and browsing the web works completely fine.
I don’t game much if at all and I’d be happy to switch to libreoffice .
You should probably be good then, at the moment gaming seems to be the main deterrent for Linux, and yeah Libreoffice is great and works for most people, just doesn’t have some of the more specialist features for some people.
well if you take the people on lemmy at face value I‘m not sure I can help you.
Of course, linux works great and for most intends and purposes, you can run it like you can run windows.
But that doesnt mean that it’s never gonna freak out on you. Games run mostly the same, except rootkit-shitware. So yes, in a very small „standard“ configuration-lane, it works flawless.
But if you start tinkering - to go all privacy nut for example - expect to see breakage. Its still community built stuff and not for profit proprietary shit that gets designed to make you use it.
I don’t game much if at all so that’s not a concern .
My point wasn’t only games but glad you’re happy
Idk how to Reply to the Lemmy face value point i mean it was IS everywhere and the long exposure and even reddit becoming slightly more linuxy convinced me that maybe Linux has become good for beginners . Also I’m barely getting in Linux world I don’t think I’m gonna start tampering enough to break anything…yet .
Something to keep in mind is that Linux doesn’t have the same hand holding as windows. By all means make the switch but do not run sudo commands you don’t understand unless you’re comfortable debugging or reinstalling your system.
I learned that the hard way, though I was more than happy to just reinstall and try again. If Linux gives you any warning, please pay attention instead of ignoring like you would on windows.
I think mint is a great choice and I’ve installed it on my laptop recently and its been working very well. I’m no expert but hopefully if you have any questions I can help you out.
Thanks I’ll get back to you if I have any questions .
That can be the case for most mainstream distros in expecteded platforms. You may find some quirks with RISC-V.
General package availability is fairly high but there’s bound to be gaps in software you need. (You should be able to find this out in advance on a per-app or library basis). Projects like Box86 and FexEmu can maybe be applied here as well but that’s another layer of complexity added to an already significant jump you’re making.
Make the exploration of this arch a side project rather than a main goal for now. There are some very interesting SBCs available, the PineTab V looks pretty cool as well, but I’d by lying to you if I said you could depend on these devices as your primary system.
Oh man I don’t mean to be rude but half of what you just said went over my head . The other half is telling me that it isn’t there yet except on some devices ? Am I right ?
no worries. RISC V is an interesting, promising yet emerging platform.
You may be able to use a RISC V system as a general computer but there’s likely to be gaps in terms of software support.
I suppose you could try and see how far can you get by using a Raspberry Pi (or similar device) as your primary computer as a sort of benchmark (bearing in mind that the RPi is ARM based, not RISC V)
With all of that said, I’m really looking forward to the day of high performance, general purpose RISC V PC systems.
A RPi5 is way more performant than the currently available Risc-V alternatives.
You’re not wrong, there are some pretty cool RV SBCs out there though. I would love to tinker someday but the unit price is maybe a bit steeper than I’d like for such an endeavour.
Someday, sure.
For sure me too . Thanks for the ELI5 . I also never knew raspberry PI was that limited since I never had one . I just thought it was just a low performance issue not a compatibility software one well TIL .
No prob.
For whatever it’s worth, you can get some very performant ARM and RISC V processors. Software support gaps are less of an issue for ARM considering how long it’s been around for. The apple silicon macs are all arm based and seem to perform very well under specific scenarios and workloads.
But I’ve had some struggles recently with very obscure software packages not playing nicley on my raspberry 5 with x86 emulation, so there are some definite hurdles still.
After installing mint, and you find a problem, just live boot mint again.
You can do a lot in live boot including mount your permanent copy even the kernel. Whatever is missing you can download put onto the installed hdd or usb storage, and then install.
Ask me how I know. Lol.
I don’t know of an easier or more beginner friendly distro than zorin.
Ubuntu LTS is likely the easiest to live with for a layperson. It’s got the stability, support and it’s got the biggest body of information for how to do things and solve problems as well as the most users using it who can help. Ubuntu LTS derivatives would inherit a lot of that but not all. The changes made to turn Ubuntu into Kubuntu for example invalidate any info for Ubuntu related to GNOME. And so on.
Live boot can be different than installed behaviour. i have had this problem on one laptop. Live USB was fine, install would complete but error out on boot with any debian based distro. So burn a USB for Zorin, Mint and maybe another choice, just so you can try another distro if you get installed OS issues
Man, you will have some pain as any change will cause. But I think you will like it. Have a second USB to be safe.
Yeah I should probably have a second USB
Like, in general :D
What?
I’m a little lost. Could you try using a little less words? Maybe try bulleting the important parts.
Regarding Zorin OS or Mint. Which one do you like to look at the most? Have you watched reviews of them?
Zorin as well as Mint are a derivate of Ubuntu so it really comes down to look and feel. And in that case test them both out via Live Session from USB stick.
Oh and btw you can install and dual boot Linux next to Windows. That way you don’t have to kill your windows installation. The Setup Process should guide you through the necessary steps.
Regarding RISC-V Vs x64 does it really matter what architecture your PC is running?
Regarding RISC-V Vs x64 does it really matter what architecture your PC is running?
Idk I thought if some company is making open source cpu’s and works, I should support it as its more private and is more sure to not have backdoors .
Regarding Zorin OS or Mint. Which one do you like to look at the most? Have you watched reviews of them?
I’m actually running Mint of a live USB right now . I haven’t watched any review of zorin OS yet but if UI is all that changes I guess I’ll stay with mint .
Then i guess you are ready to run the Install Mint application on your desktop in that live session :)
You can always distro hop later, but get comfortable in the new world of Linux by using Mint first.
Haha for sure looking a lot like that just waiting to get more answers to my 1,2,3 questions.
To clarify 1. Live Sessions in Linux Installations were made specifically to test if said Installation can provide all the tools and modules you need for your device. So whatever runs in the Live Session will also run on the installed version.
Really ? You are sure right ? I read a post on reddit of a guy whose WiFi stopped working after he made it his primary and he said that it worked on live USB . He was running mint too I believe, same as me with no other device .
Yeah pretty sure.
I’ve installed and ran Mint last month.
But it’s always a good idea to have a backup strategy as the saying goes: it’s better to have than something to need.
Nice I’ll follow through on that advice thanks .
For the meantime when buying a new machine look at Novacustom (EU) or System76 or Starlabs (US). They support and ship coreboot on some devices, but on very powerful machines.
Yes I was looking at System76 the prices are a bit high for me even with the specs lowered but maybe I’ll treat meself .
Yes that is true. Especially when buying stuff used you can get way cheaper prices.
I mean you are financing coreboot development, a Linux Desktop, an OS and more.
Btw Pop!_OS is another distro recommendation if you want to stick with Ubuntu base. I dont personally like their style that much, but the new COSMIC desktop is already usable, and the old one is based on GNOME, so modern and solid.
I can just imagine that they could switch to it a bit fast.
- I dont think switching not officially supported desktops on Ubuntu base is easy. You need to uninstall the packages, remove the repos, add the new repos, install the new packages and hope you got all the configs. On Fedora Atomic desktops for example this is waaaay easier.
- Dualbooting with Windows works but causes many common problems. I always recommend at least using a separate SSD, to avoid having GRUB being overwritten by some janky “security cleanup” during “windows update”
Nothing in live week ever be 100% guaranteed to work forever. You’ll be fine, mostly.
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Yes, Live Linux system and regular install are practically identical. It’s the same software. Everything should work. There’s reason to assume Wifi will suddenly break. (Actually, Live systems differ a lot from a traditional install, but you can assume that what worked on the live system will work later. It is the same software after all. Same kernel including all drivers.)
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Keep this USB you have just booted from. This is the tool to recover if things should go south.
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You can keep Windows, usually, when installing Linux. The process requires “shrinking the Windows partition” and a boot loader that can handle both. Pretty standard; the installer should guide you.
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You can totally use a phone to google how to fix your Linux.
Have fun with Linux Mint. It’s the Just works Linux.
I read a post on reddit of a guy whose WiFi stopped working after he made it his primary and he said that it worked on live USB . He was running mint too believe that’s where I got the idea that this could be an issue . Also I know you can google how to fix it but most guides on how to fix something usually requires a PC .
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Grab a bunch of ISO’s from some of the more well known distros. Drop them on a removable drive and try each of them live.
Best way to do this if you have a larger drive is to install Ventoy, it lets you simply drop ISO files on it and it will make a menu and let you boot any of them.
During the live run check that everything you want works. If wifi works during live it will probably work when installed. Browse the web, play youtube, see if you can access shares on your LAN, play music, movies, check if it sees all your peripherals, run a graphics benchmark etc. This is how I landed on Manjaro a few years back when looking for a new distro.
My line of reasoning is that if a distro can do all this stuff in its live version (an has put enough care in it to make it work that well) it’s a strong indicator that the actual distro will be good too.
Both use Ubuntu LTS so they have the same packages
Zorin has a more sustainable model of modifying GNOME, so Wayland support, modern stuff etc. But it lacks behind in versions and still simply is a hacked GNOME with inconsistencies.
Mint with Cinnamon has buggy Wayland support, Apps that are often really nice but dont really change much. Cinnamon and the apps are not often used outside of Linux mint.
Both are buggy in some cases.
I would honestly recommend Fedora (or if you want stability as in “the bugs dont change”, Debian, Ubuntu LTS) with KDE Plasma or GNOME.
I use Fedora Kinoite myself, it is modern but the base model is soooo much better for stability than the traditional distros. I use most my apps as Flatpaks, QGis and RStudio through distrobox. All apps apart from QGis are using Wayland.
It is really really good and I hopped a lot.
I do not recomment Mint or Zorin. Same as with ElementaryOS, or stuff involvinf XFCE, Mate, Budgie, LXDE/LXQt.
Those will forever stay less supported.
Does mints flavor matter ? XFCE flavour . Also I thought mint was well maintained you just casually turned my entire world view of OS’s mate .
Mint is 95% Ubuntu LTS. That means it is a stable base, used in maaany companies, for servers etc.
Linux Distros are a puzzle of packages.
Just in my experience, especially desktop linux struggles a lot with instability and development.
In my Experience, at least KDE Plasma on Ubuntu base was always horribly unstable. But I want to stay with Plasma :D
Linux Mint also has their own desktop, forked from GNOME 2 or 3 idk, because they didnt like what they did. A lot didnt like it, Budgie, Cinnamon, Mate are the same here.
And as GNOME is still the biggest Desktop on most distros, that says a lot about the state of these “protest desktops”.
I have the feeling Mint has an extreme difference between “how much is it used and recommended” and “how much is it developed”, unlike many other projects.
They are doing kinda fine (no idea when they will ship with Ubuntu 24.04 LTS) but they also simply dont really change much.
All these old Desktops base on a big huge core, XOrg, handling all the display, input, output etc. That is made for terminals and mainframes, is fundamentally insecure and just got patched and patched over the years to support things like multiple screens.
As XOrg is not really maintained since years, Wayland really is the new alternative.
Wayland is waaay better, just still incomplete for some use cases.
Any Desktop without Wayland support is unmaintained and insecure. XOrg is not magically patched by some mint developers.
GNOME, KDE Plasma and some window managers have good wayland support. COSMIC, a very cool new alpha-stage desktop, is wayland only.
Cinnamon does its own thing but I have no idea how they want to compete with GNOME, KDE Plasma and now COSMIC. Every desktop does its own thing (they dont need to but do anways, reading code is less fun than writing code).
And once the core component is unmaintained, Desktops with less developers are struggling hard.
What a laughably inaccurate hot take.
Xorg is not getting huge changes, but it is still maintained and will be until RHEL moves to Wayland, RHEL 9 maintenance support is until 2032. The latest stable Xorg release was April 12, 2024.
Mint is working on Wayland support, the current release has experimental support for demonstration. It has not been a priority as Wayland has been lacking in many features, but it is finally becoming fully feature complete.
The release based on 24.04 will likely be in the summer. The previous major release was just three months after the LTS. This is far faster than many other derivatives. The changes are also ported to Debian.
Linux Mint is very actively developed. Development updates are shared regularly.
So should I believe hired squirrel or not ? I’m guessing not ?
Ultimately you should use what you like. Even their beloved Fedora has spins for things like Budgie and Cinnamon that they are badmouthing (although Cinnamon runs best on Mint). The distributions and desktops are fine, even if that person has a preference for something else and thinks it is the best.
Zorin is also fine. My only criticism is they released Zorin 17 in December and it is based on the Ubuntu LTS from 2022 rather than the one that was just released. It means it has older packages and will the entire time until they release the next version, but the Ubuntu LTS from 2022 still has years of support. Older packages are not inherently a problem.
Ubuntu, Debian, and others all provide access to much newer kernels if it is desired (in many it has even become the default setting!). In Ubuntu and its derivatives this is called “HWE”, in Debian it is backports. Fedora does not want to use resources for back porting fixes into earlier kernels, so they routinely update the kernel. It’s a different philosophy and different resource management, nothing more.
Thanks for the info.
Okay, XOrg is still maintained then. I dont know if RHEL 9 already defaults to Wayland but can imagine not.
I agree on the points with missing support, various things, especially remote desktop, need to be adapted to switching was not easy.
Still, they are too late. These things are doable now and it is still an incomplete implementation.
I think their work is good, their desktop and apps have a clear scope and work well in that. But I wouldnt recommend it, because I dont recommend Ubuntu base, and because I think currently there are better desktops.
The rush to new things is exactly why Fedora works well for you, but there is no need to rush. What exists works fine and continue to work for the foreseeable future, and work is being done to continue working with new technologies in the future too, but there is no too late at this point. Rushing to implement new technologies is kind of Fedora’s big draw, but in exchange you have to do a complete system upgrade at least once a year and deal with any fallout if things break or don’t work the way you want them to (less an issue with atomic desktops). I appreciate that Fedora exists to do the incubation, and routinely deploy their changes (well documented in the FesCo approvals) onto Linux Mint.
Ubuntu base is optional. Debian base also works fine, though a little less polished on the Debian side. “Better desktop” is subjective. I think Gnome’s workflow is atrocious and KDE is extremely cluttered and buggy, but if people want to use them it’s fine.
I also dont like GNOME but their desktop is pretty nice. It is waaay to minimal
- clipboard history
- copy addresses
- links
But many of these are also true for cinnamon.
KDE Plasma has a bit many features, on Kinoite I only use the bare minimum. But currently it works great and only more and more bugfixes will come. I havent had issues in a long time, and really wish that it stays like that.
Their software is powerful, and with great power comes… many bugs.
I see your point, but it is not secure at all.
For example Mint has skype from an APT repo. This means users run creepy proprietary Microsoft garbabe. Not as a Flatpak and not on Wayland, meaning it can do whatever it wants, autostart, run in the background, record everything, scan everything.
Dont ask yourself if it works, but how it works.
but there is no too late at this point.
There is, as developing Wayland, Pipewire, xdg-desktop-portal support etc. takes time and testing.
XOrg may be officially maintained, but it is extremely insecure by design and also RedHat is not fixing that.
This is the dead deadline. And just because that is the point when even the last, paid developers will jump off the XOrg ship.
I would call the time toward that point “perfectly working”. It is basically life preservance.
less an issue with atomic desktops
Updates are really stable (dont have much experience with traditional fedora) but you will still get all the new changes that may surprise you.
Ubuntu base is optional. Debian base also works fine
I wouldnt use either. They ship outdated packages which is not a good model.
I think OpenSUSE Slowroll is a reasonable model, ship stuff that comes out, but wait a bit until the Tumbleweed people have tested it.
Fedora is not bleeding edge either, thats what Fedora Rawhide is for.
But using 3 years old outdated packages for basic stuff, like mesa, or the kernel, or… xscreensaver ;D
For sure it is nice for servers that have one purpose, but general desktops, I dont think so.
The biggest problem is that the Distro makes the cut, not the devs. Stability is fine, but if there is no ESR version of a product (like Firefox ESR, Thunderbird ESR, the LTS Kernel etc) you will just freeze packages of random versions.
If you then dont backport fixes, like with xscreensaver, you get these issues.
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