Especially when her main message is saving democracy

This is exactly the reason. Because saving democracy right now means getting every possible vote, and the Cheneys can sway some old, Reagan/Bush republicans who reflexively vote R without really paying attention. If even the Cheneys support Harris, they might take notice. It’s an enemy-of-my-enemy situation.

I think I understand why you’re not getting this. You simply can’t understand that under FPTP, the only way to vehemently deny one candidate and to keep them out of office is to ‘support’ the other, even if you don’t agree with them. When one candidate will destroy democracy and usher in an autocracy, if you actually care about having a choice in the future, the only effective solution is to support an opposition that will not destroy everything.

You still haven’t addressed how Biden’s foreign policy and Harris’s presumed foreign policy (due to her unwillingness to create daylight) isn’t a part of her platform aligned with the Cheneys.

This is not the topic of conversation, and I’ve already given you enough of my time. Google exists., and I’m not your polisci professor. You can look the rest up for yourself.

the mythical centrist Dick Cheney voter.

You mean the Reagan/Bush era republicans who are now the most reliable voting block, and who feel like the current Republican party has gone too far, but have been dutifully ticking that R every election since they were able to vote? The ones on a steady diet of Fox News who think trump can’t really be that bad, but if the Cheney’s of all people, those dyed in the wool conservatives, are supporting Harris, maybe they should at least look a bit closer at it – those people who don’t exist?

I assure you, those people exist. Especially in swing states. They exist so much, professional pollsters warn they might be over represented.

Thanks! I updated my comment.

Did it work? https://xcancel.com/realDonaldTrump/status/347191326112112640?lang=en

It’s loading weird for me, maybe because I’m on mobile?

Good point.

No, it isn’t. The Cheneys aren’t supporting Harris, but rejecting trump and trying to pull more moderate conservatives away from him. Not towards Harris – their platforms are not aligned at all – but to try to bring the GOP away from self-immolation.

Again,their motives are purely self-interest.

On the other hand, Duke is saying he supports Stein because her interests align with his. Huge ass difference.

e: formatting

You’re right, I misremembered an article I read last month:

# 200 aides of former Republicans, including both Bush presidents, endorse Kamala Harris

Bush’s lack of endorsement makes him somehow worse than he already was, in light of practically everyone else coming out against trump, and the bar is so low, Satan is tripping over it.

This isn’t about like or dislike. Again, it’s about her track record. If Duke had come out to support Cornel West, we’d have collectively shrugged. I’d still strongly recommend nobody vote for him because he’s a spoiler, too, and I don’t like him as a candidate, but a Nazi endorsement for him would not make any difference.

The entire reason Duke supporting Stein matters is because of her history supporting fascists. How is this difficult to grasp?

It seems I can only search by username and I’m not sifting through all his posts to find it. Thanks, though!

Are they? Has fainting happened at other venues?

Why would they do that intentionally?

I’m not trying to be combative, but my sceptic spidey sense is tingling. This feels a bit conspiratorial.

e: I can get behind the water thing, but my gut leans towards his followers being hysterical fanatics.

There’s a very clear difference: Stein is a well-documented, intentional spoiler who’s funding comes primarily from Republican mega-donors and Russian interests, and who recently said out loud her purpose isn’t to advance her party but exclusively to block Harris.

Her track record makes that endorsement poignant.

If she was sincere and didn’t already align with fascist interests, we wouldn’t care what Nazis say about her.

Why isn’t the Green Party putting their resources and efforts towards changing the FPTP system? All that money and time could be spent elevating that issue to actually make a legislative difference, rather than pissing into the wind. They can’t possibly be oblivious to the real problem.

Or maybe, like people who keep stanning for them, their motivations aren’t as pure as they want you to think.

This is not giving up ground. The only people looking at this and thinking it means Harris somehow supports the Cheneys rather than the other way round are ideological purists. Nobody sane is giving the Cheneys a pass. They’re slime and we all know it. The only thing this tells us is that he’s* so unabashedly heinous that even old school Republicans can’t stomach him. It’s not a difficult concept.

e: *

I’m in Michigan and have never booked a venue that didn’t have air con. I don’t know about Pennsylvania, but it’s not colder than here.

I really doubt that was the issue. I could be wrong, obviously.

No, this is a situation where the dems need to get as many votes as possible, and you’re underestimating the voting power of old people.

The dems are accepting the Cheney’s support specifically to wake up some moderate, old conservatives who would otherwise vote reflexively for trump simply because of the R after his name.

This isn’t an ideological move, but a purely political one. Politics is not always tasteful. Ideological purity is useless against actual, real-life fascism, and it’s a strategic move. Reality isn’t always rainbows and unicorns.

I honestly think this whole story is silly and overhyped. It reminds me of that story a few months ago where trump cut his thumb or something and didn’t notice, so there was some blood on his hand for a few hours in photos. Everyone went nuts that he had a disease.

This is a ridiculous thing to focus on, and it’s being blown way out of proportion. His rallies are full of fanatics (eta: who are prone to hysteria), and he’s certainly showing signs of dementia, but I watched that whole video, and he didn’t just stand there swaying the whole time. It was painfully awkward, but he did interact with people every few minutes.

I just think there are far, far bigger issues with this lunatic than this, and I seriously doubt there’s anything nefarious to do with the venue.

Nobody is ‘standing by him’. Hitler liked dogs. Am I supposed to hate dogs because Hitler ‘stood by’ them?

I couldn’t give less of a fuck who the Cheneys support. Their opinions don’t factor into my choices at all.

I think you’re misunderstanding the Cheney’s support.

Dick and Liz (and Bush and others) aren’t supporting Harris because she aligns with them or they like her. They’re doing it because trump is so heinous, literally anything is better than a second trump term.

They don’t want Harris; they’ve just reached the conclusion trump will destroy the GOP. And they’re right.

As Lindsay Graham said in 2016:

If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed…and we will deserve it.

This is self-preservation.

Doing the underlord’s work.