Rights advocates in the United States are urging President Joe Biden to end his administration’s “complicity” in Israeli rights abuses after key members of Israel’s government backed the idea of pushing Palestinians out of Gaza.

Far-right Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich said this week that Israel should “encourage emigration” from the coastal enclave, home to an estimated 2.3 million Palestinians.

“If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not two million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after [the war ends] will be totally different,” Smotrich said on Sunday, calling for the “voluntary migration” of Palestinians.

A day later, Ben-Gvir, who oversees national security, made a similar appeal, saying it was “a correct, just, moral and humane solution”, Israeli media outlets reported.

  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    He’s not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for is trump.

    The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls.

    Turns out that the electorate has a ridiculously short memory.

    Turns out that the “I’m not the other guy” tactic is much less effective for an incumbent than a challenger.

    Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters, maybe even more, is an extremely bad idea even if your opponent is objectively many times worse than you.

    So yeah, as much as he hates it, he’s gonna have to do something different, or at least pretend to, and he knows it.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls

      He’s been polling bad this whole time…

      And just illegally went around Congress to “sell” weapons to Israel in exchange for a small slice of the billions we’ve given them this year.

      I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic

      But it’s just not what’s actually happening…

      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        He’s been polling bad this whole time…

        It’s gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though.

        I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic

        I’d say that giving it a 10-20% likelihood of happening in spite of him almost certainly being forced to do it or lose is rather pessimistic tbh…

        But it’s just not what’s actually happening

        I’m not saying it’s happening. I’m saying that the likelihood of it happening in the future has increased from nonexistent to very small, theoretically.

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It’s gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though

          Factually incorrect…

          https://www.270towin.com/2024-presidential-election-polls/national

          They’ve been 2-3% away from each other all year.

          Even before this Israel shit, Biden doesn’t have a good chance.

          That doesn’t mean I agree with anything else you’re saying, I’m just not going to provide a source that disproves every single thing you just said, because it’s not a good use of time so I’m trying to focus on just one thing.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Even before this Israel shit, Biden doesn’t have a good chance.

            The election year just started, and these numbers are going to change dramatically

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters

      Strong disagree on this language.

      https://jcpa.org/new-u-s-poll-raises-questions-about-americans-support-for-israels-war-against-hamas/

      Anyone in the 10% that thinks hostages or sexual assault is a lie, or that Jews overplay the fucking Holocaust, are not “rightful” and their concerns do not come from empathy, because they lack empathy as a concept.

      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Is it right to be morally outraged by an ongoing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide? Yes or no?

        The indisputable facts that Hamas has committed heinous terrorism and that the holocaust happened and was unimaginably awful doesn’t excuse the crimes against humanity committed by the Israeli government, so please pack your fucking whataboutism away.

        • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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          10 months ago

          That’s not whataboutism. Whataboutism is changing the subject to derail the conversation. This is simply addressing a different point of view in the same discussion.

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            No. Mentioning the opinions of uninvolved people IS changing the subject of whether or not genocide is bad and should be stopped.

            A comparable if much lower stakes example would be if we were discussing whether or not it’s ok to say that Wings were better than The Beatles and then some rando chimes in to inform us that 10% of techno fans think that the world doesn’t need guitars.

            Fun had, let’s return to the actual: 10% of the respondents of a poll saying ANYTHING doesn’t make genocide more or less acceptable and bringing it up in spite of that is a whataboutism, a distraction and a very crass way to try to derail the conversation.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It’s not whataboutism to demonstrate that an election-significant number of Democrats believe Hamas bullshit over reality, and that the number of people who believe that is enough to change Dem support from strong majority agreement with the President to disagreement.

          It’s also not whataboutism to point out that nearly a third of people polled have generally no opinion on such basic things as “did the Holocaust happen” or “was the Hamas terror attack a big deal” or “does Hamas target civilians.”

          War does indeed suck and you’re allowed to not like it and even use your irresponsibly inflammatory language, but it’s absurd to suggest these comments are whataboutism.

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            It’s not whataboutism to demonstrate that an election-significant number of Democrats believe Hamas bullshit over reality

            Even if the pro-IDF propaganda piece you linked to had successfully demonstrated that, yes it would still be a whataboutism.

            What Americans believe has no bearing on whether the Israeli government should be allowed to systematically slaughter and demolish their way through Palestinians, including children, at a rate completely unheard of anywhere in the world in recent years.

            It’s also not whataboutism to point out that nearly a third of people polled have generally no opinion on such basic things as “did the Holocaust happen” or “was the Hamas terror attack a big deal” or “does Hamas target civilians.”

            Yes it is. That is by definition whataboutism. Maybe you need to look up what whataboutism is. While you’re at it, look up “bad faith arguments” and several logical fallacies.

            War does indeed suck

            And war crimes perpetrated against a mostly defenseless civilization population of over 50% children are much worse.

            you’re allowed to not like it

            Gee, thanks! So generous of you!

            irresponsibly accurate inflammatory language

            Fixed that for you

            it’s absurd to suggest these comments are whataboutism.

            Again, just Google it. You can also use a better search engine, but PLEASE look up the word you keep pretending you know the meaning of.

            • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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              10 months ago

              Again, while I don’t necessarily otherwise disagree with you, you are a little confused on whataboutism.

              • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Nope, I’m not. Those comments mention things that have absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand but the one bringing them up tries to derail the discussion by insisting that they’re not only relevant but in fact crucial to the matter at hand.

                That’s textbook whataboutism.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Even if the pro-IDF propaganda piece you linked to had successfully demonstrated that, yes it would still be whataboutism since what Americans believe has no bearing on whether the Israeli government should be allowed to systematically slaughter and demolish their way through Palestinians, including children, at a rate completely unheard of anywhere in the world in recent years.

              You do understand that you are literally expressing a thing that some Americans believe, yes? Like, you get that your position is an opinion, right?

              • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.

                It’s a VERY popular opinion though, one shared by so many people that the world has decided that people are not allowed to do that bad thing.

                That the Israeli Apartheid regime is committing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide isn’t an opinion, though. It’s an objective fact by all definitions of all the words.

                A fact not changed by whether or not some misguided Americans think or pretend to think that the atrocities of Hamas are justified or that the holocaust didn’t happen.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.

                  You’re not dumb. You know that people disagree with you on the atrocities you claim.

                  For instance, it’s impossible to have an apartheid system against another country. Israel is, by definition, not an apartheid state.

                  It’s hilarious to me that you’ll try to bring up the definitions of words after that - perhaps this is why your opinion is so extreme.

                  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    You’re not dumb.

                    Wow, you’ve already doubled the number of things you’ve been right about! At this rate we’ll only have to keep arguing a couple months more until you stop being an insincere moron!

                    You know that people disagree with you on the atrocities you claim.

                    I know that some people deny objective reality, yes, but that doesn’t make objective reality any less real or any more subjective.

                    it’s impossible to have an apartheid system against another country.

                    Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs living in Israel and Israel-occupied and/or -controlled Palestine are treated as, at best, second class citizens. Desmond Tutu agreed that Israel is an Apartheid state and he of all people should know.

                    It’s hilarious to me that you’ll try to bring up the definitions of words after that

                    I guess the truth sometimes looks like hilarious comedy to those who believe in ridiculous gaslighting such as that coming from Times of Israel, AIPAC and Faux News 🤷

                    your opinion is so extreme.

                    Yeah, it’s SO extreme to think that the lives of Palestinians matter! Such an audacious notion! 🙄

                  • zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    10 months ago

                    For instance, it’s impossible to have an apartheid system against another country. Israel is, by definition, not an apartheid state.

                    What other country has their roads, electricity, water, trade, and police controlled by another?

                    Like there are words, and then there are facts on the ground. It walks and quacks like an apartheid.