And I’ll say that my observation is that not only did it not improve my social skills, it didn’t measurable improve those in the various friend groups, some of whom, 40 years later and still gaming, are just about as awkward as when they were in high school.
You are conflating awkwardness with poor communication skills, they aren’t the same thing at all.
Plenty of charming, boisterous people can walk into any room and dominate it with their charm, DND won’t teach you that, but it will teach you how to converse in your own voice. The point isn’t not to be awkward.
It really doesn’t matter that it is a fantasy, I think that makes it a more powerful as a teaching tool not less.
Also eeew no, almost all the managers I have had that were in the military (ESPECIALLY men) have trash leadership skills where if someone is having a hard time their solution is 1. ignore it, men dont like to talk about feelings 2. gaslight them into shutting up 3. unintentionally or intentionally bully the person in front of their peers so they try harder out of fear.
You are conflating awkwardness with poor communication skills
You believe that social skills aren’t dependent on communication skills?
It really doesn’t matter that is fantasy, I think that makes it a more powerful as a teaching tool not less.
The claim was that it taught social skills. I claim it will only do that if the teachers have excellent social skills. Not all teachers are good, or are good at teaching social skills.
Also eeew no, almost all the managers I have had that were in the military (ESPECIALLY men) have trash leadership skills
You’re conflating social skills, and military experience, with management ;-)
I didn’t say the military made people good managers. Management is a very specific skill set, and you don’t have to be socially fluent to be a good manager, although it helps. And being a good communicator, and having good social skills absolutely does not automatically make you a good leader!
You seem to be reading things in my comments that I’m not saying. For example, that I had a bad time gaming; or that the military makes good leaders. We have a communications gap here; how can I be more clear?
I’m not sure how to read your last paragraph; it seems to be an expression of frustration with men, in general, and I don’t know what kind of response I can provide. You haven’t had positive experiences with ex-military (usually male) managers? How many of those have you had?
You haven’t had positive experiences with ex-military (usually male) managers? How many of those have you had?
Too many and most of them elected themselves to be leaders in situations I was in because they foolishly but decisively believed they were going to have to take charge in order for things to happen.
Well it keeps happening because the military acts like it knows on an institutional level how to shape someone who will fight tooth and nail and use every tool at their disposal (even if it doesn’t exist yet and they have to invent the necessary tools themselves) and the rest of society worryingly falls in line about it. Militaries all throughout history have proven exhaustively that their very structure and institutional values primarily promote rule followers who are catastrophically ill-equipped to operate in an environment of rapidly changing rules and evolving tactics.
No, if the militaries of the world actually gave a shit about this good improvisational comedy/theater teachers would all be on the payroll of various different defense agencies and would frequently be retraining military personnel about how war actually works.
You know what is better than everyone having radios and being in constant contact that risks jamming or interception by Electronics Warfare units? Go watch a good live improv show, you will see.
Every large war is a forced remembering that the kinds of people who obsess over the aesthetics and planning of war are wasting time forgetting how one actually fights a war when push comes to shove.
The primary thing good improv teachers help you do is understand intimately the necessary power of acting on instinct the instant something disturbs the status quo to retain initiative while also recognizing being able to step back and let the situation organically resolve itself is winning and ultimately your job is to facilitate those conditions.
You are conflating awkwardness with poor communication skills, they aren’t the same thing at all.
Plenty of charming, boisterous people can walk into any room and dominate it with their charm, DND won’t teach you that, but it will teach you how to converse in your own voice. The point isn’t not to be awkward.
It really doesn’t matter that it is a fantasy, I think that makes it a more powerful as a teaching tool not less.
Also eeew no, almost all the managers I have had that were in the military (ESPECIALLY men) have trash leadership skills where if someone is having a hard time their solution is 1. ignore it, men dont like to talk about feelings 2. gaslight them into shutting up 3. unintentionally or intentionally bully the person in front of their peers so they try harder out of fear.
You believe that social skills aren’t dependent on communication skills?
The claim was that it taught social skills. I claim it will only do that if the teachers have excellent social skills. Not all teachers are good, or are good at teaching social skills.
You’re conflating social skills, and military experience, with management ;-)
I didn’t say the military made people good managers. Management is a very specific skill set, and you don’t have to be socially fluent to be a good manager, although it helps. And being a good communicator, and having good social skills absolutely does not automatically make you a good leader!
You seem to be reading things in my comments that I’m not saying. For example, that I had a bad time gaming; or that the military makes good leaders. We have a communications gap here; how can I be more clear?
I’m not sure how to read your last paragraph; it seems to be an expression of frustration with men, in general, and I don’t know what kind of response I can provide. You haven’t had positive experiences with ex-military (usually male) managers? How many of those have you had?
Too many and most of them elected themselves to be leaders in situations I was in because they foolishly but decisively believed they were going to have to take charge in order for things to happen.
Oh, yeah. Bias to action is often cultivated, and considered a positive trait. It can be really bad, especially in people who are bad leaders.
I’m sorry you’ve had that experience.
Well it keeps happening because the military acts like it knows on an institutional level how to shape someone who will fight tooth and nail and use every tool at their disposal (even if it doesn’t exist yet and they have to invent the necessary tools themselves) and the rest of society worryingly falls in line about it. Militaries all throughout history have proven exhaustively that their very structure and institutional values primarily promote rule followers who are catastrophically ill-equipped to operate in an environment of rapidly changing rules and evolving tactics.
No, if the militaries of the world actually gave a shit about this good improvisational comedy/theater teachers would all be on the payroll of various different defense agencies and would frequently be retraining military personnel about how war actually works.
You know what is better than everyone having radios and being in constant contact that risks jamming or interception by Electronics Warfare units? Go watch a good live improv show, you will see.
Every large war is a forced remembering that the kinds of people who obsess over the aesthetics and planning of war are wasting time forgetting how one actually fights a war when push comes to shove.
The primary thing good improv teachers help you do is understand intimately the necessary power of acting on instinct the instant something disturbs the status quo to retain initiative while also recognizing being able to step back and let the situation organically resolve itself is winning and ultimately your job is to facilitate those conditions.