Quote: “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it again and again. The Al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its 7 October onslaught - ed.] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”

  • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Many people are calling Hamas “freedom fighters” and outright defending its actions. I would say a significant portion of Fediverse users fall into this camp, from what I’ve seen.

    • Serdan@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      A majority? Well, you’re either lying or you have a severely distorted view of reality.

    • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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      1 year ago

      We’re simply calling for the stop of oppression and genocide and ethnic cleansing, if that constitute supporting Hamas then you be you.

      • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        No, I mean people literally calling Hamas “freedom fighters”, and outright cheering them on. There’s a difference between “calling for the stop of oppression and genocide and ethnic cleansing” and blatantly supporting the actions of a terror organization.

        • Zorque@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          People cheer for nazis, too. Are you going to make a generic claim that “It’s mind-blowing that people defend these monsters” as well? Maybe you should make a comment about people who “defend” mass shooters too! Let’s not forget all those “defenders” of eugenics.

          Just because you see one or two people making propaganda doesn’t mean it’s something reasonable people are doing.

          • bioemerl@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            People cheer for nazis, too. Are you going to make a generic claim that “It’s mind-blowing that people defend these monsters” as well?

            Yes. If I ever see a significant number of people defending the Nazis in spaces I speak in I will say exactly that.

            • Zorque@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Man, when you go outside some time you’re going to have your mind absolutely shattered at all the surprising things people do.

              It’s a meaningless phrase meant to distance yourself from something distasteful. It has no bearing on anything but the person saying it, unless they’re using it as a dog-whistle to call out people who are saying something they don’t like, as BaldProphet is doing above.

              • bioemerl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You seem quite disturbed and angered by the fact that I would be disturbed and voice that worry if I saw a bunch of Nazis around.

                • Zorque@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  You have a poor grasp of the situation if that’s how you’re interpreting it.

          • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I don’t believe it is reasonable, but as I said, I am surprised by how many people are unreasonably supportive of Hamas, despite otherwise priding themselves on being progressive forward-thinkers.

            • Zorque@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Probably because you’re misinterpreting lack of support for Israel as support of Hamas.

        • floofloof@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          people literally calling Hamas “freedom fighters”, and outright cheering them on.

          You think most people here are like that? Most people seem to be appalled by what Hamas did on October 7th. Most people also seem to be appalled by Israel killing huge numbers of civilians.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            There’s no need to be defensive. I find both the IDF and Hamas detestable, and I’ve seen support for both here. There isn’t a lot of pro IDF support, but I call it out still. Even a little bit is too much.

            • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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              1 year ago

              Calling out someone lumping anti-oppression/anti-genocide with pro-hamas is defensive? That’s the narrative pro-idf keep pushing.

              • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                That’s not what the person you were speaking to was saying. They were talking about people who were actually defending Hamas, not just criticizing Israel. They didn’t lump the two together. The IDF and it’s supporters love pushing that, but there’s no need to automatically assume someone is on their side when they talk about seeing pro Hamas people.

    • Infiltrated_ad8271@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I have never seen anyone supporting hamas, at most justifying the legitimacy of some of its objectives and the right to fight for them, but not its actions; always being critical of hamas and its war crimes.

      In fact, high tolerance or even open support for war crimes is something I have only seen on the zionist side.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You’ve got people doing it in this very thread. Blaming Israel for Hamas murdering people isn’t exactly being critical of their actions.

        https://lemmy.world/comment/5040910

        Prime example from above. And it’s net positive on votes.

        Edit: Why can’t we simply agree that supporting the IDF is fucked up, supporting Hamas is fucked up, and they’re all awful people?

      • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I saw comments explicitly supporting Hamas and their recent actions on Lemmygrad a few weeks ago. Someone was even posting about how they hoped hostages get tortured by Hamas. I haven’t gone back but I assume you can still find those people there. They aren’t really any different than the Zionist extremists who support IDF war crimes, they just use different language to justify the horror.

        • BarbecueCowboy@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I completely believe you, but pointing at Lemmygrad for anything like that is kind of a low bar. If there’s any possibility that it could go against Western Interests, the community is automatically for it. They don’t really care what’s actually going on, they just work backwards from being ‘Anti-Western’ and figure out how to support it later.

        • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          dismantling settlements, cleansing the land of the IDF, and regaining their land are all legitimate objectives and should be supported.

          • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            That’s not a great argument. Just because your objectives are legitimate doesn’t mean your actions are legitimate.

            • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              He’s saying that Hamas isn’t legitimate because they committed atrocities. I will never accept this until people acknowledge that the occupation government isn’t legitimate, and doesn’t deserve a dime.

              Let me be clear here: if you have to choose the lesser of two evils, then the occupation government will not be your choice, no matter what’s on the other side.

              • BarbecueCowboy@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                I feel like your argument here gets slippery very quickly. You’re basically advocating for ‘win at all costs’ if you’re on a specific side and that’s real hard to support.

                • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Advocating for a “win at all costs” strategy is something you should accuse people supporting the murder of dozens of people because there’s a Hamas leader amongst them (still disputed) of.

                  I don’t want civilians to be harmed and I don’t support terrorizing people until they retaliate. those two qualities make me a better person compared to any occupation government supporter (person on the other side). lets say that I support the murder of civilians until Hamas achieves their objectives, that would only bring me down to their level, if not a little higher.

              • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I don’t understand this way of thinking. Why does what people believe about the legitimacy of the Israeli government have any effect on your acceptance of atrocities?

                • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Why does what people believe about the legitimacy of the Israeli government have any effect on your acceptance of atrocities?

                  It doesn’t, atrocities are atrocities, but if people think that Hamas isn’t legitimate for their atrocities, then the occupation government is even less legitimate for theirs.