• cabbage@piefed.social
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    6 hours ago

    Chinese cars are heavily subsidized by the state. The reason they’re so cheap is because China bets it can squeeze the competition out of the market before charging basically whatever they want.

    I’ve seen Starbucks do the same thing to independent coffee shops.

    Edit: This is a post about real car companies like Nissan, Volvo, Mercedes, Renault, whatever. I don’t care about America. Nobody has for decades.

    • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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      7 hours ago

      Chinese cars are heavily subsidized by the state

      Detroit has received $88B in subsidies and loans since 2008. That’s why we have so many cheap EV options?

      • SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works
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        2 hours ago

        Heavily subsidized by misery, as well.

        Detroit pays union wages and has to respect worker rights (at the top end of the supply chain). The “communist “ state seems to escape these limited obligations in big parts of their supply chains.

    • Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      Frankly, american cars could use a knockdown. Tesla was our only real hope, and we would have glided into a strong Tesla and EV empire if conservative dems didn’t bail out GM, Chrysler, and Ford. Additionally, Tesla wouldn’t have been in a position to get bought by a dumb nazi.

      I’d say, let their stuff in. Lets get some good cheap and subsidizes vehicles from China on the condition that they don’t raise car prices by more than 2% a year.

      American companies will more than likely fall on their face and hopefully die. Making room for a new american car company to take their place.

    • halcyoncmdr@piefed.social
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      22 hours ago

      And yet even at 2-3x the price, the Chinese EVs provide a better value than the handful of the American options they would compete against.

      This SUV would be competing with the likes of a high end EV option like Lucid or Tesla. The Lucid Gravity starts a around $70k, and the Tesla Model X (now discontinued) was around $92k.

      The Xiaomi SU7 (the car the Ford CEO has driven since 2024, despite being banned in the US) starts at $32k and clearly is targeted to compete the Porsche Taycan at $112k.

      The vehicle in this article has heated floors, a projector, a pop-up roof, a fridge, swiveling seats, and over 1,000 miles of range. Functions western companies consider “luxury” are basically just standard in the Chinese market like heated and ventilated seats. They don’t even bother to advertise things like that because it’s a minimum expectation. There are zero western options that come close to something like that. The options available in the US suck, even taking industry subsidies into account.

      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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        7 hours ago

        heated floors, a projector, a pop-up roof, a fridge, swiveling seats,

        Never have I once thought I needed any of that bullshit.

        • halcyoncmdr@piefed.social
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          7 hours ago

          And yet there it is, along with basically every other “luxury” feature western companies save for high end models… all for the price of a base model SUV here.

        • halcyoncmdr@piefed.social
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          5 hours ago

          I see you forget about the first 3 models that Tesla made that were $70k or higher when they were discontinued, and all launched at $90k+

          • boonhet@lemmy.zip
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            44 minutes ago

            They were only high-end EVs because the EV market was dogshit then. They’ve never competed with high-end cars in general.

            Unfortunately it’s a race to the bottom and high-end cars are doing the same Tesla bullshit of a minimalist interior with a huge display instead of physical buttons with heft like they used to.

      • Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
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        24 hours ago

        Both statements can be true at the same time. But the scale of one is many times larger.

        China’s MO from rare earths and magnets to cars to silicon follows the same plan. Take IP, Subsidize the industry, Research, once you have a monopoly use it to squeeze adversaries.

        I will say at least China is willing to kill off underperforming companies.

        The US needs to let a lot of legacy companies that aren’t performing die off. It also needs to break up oligopolies in many industries. Why compete when you can buy up the future competitors and set prices with a handful of competitors. The financialization of our economy is choking us.

        • randompasta@lemmy.today
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          1 day ago

          Wrong. US manufacturers have effectively been shut out of China. But not before they made investments that China basically stole.

          • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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            7 hours ago

            effectively been shut out of China.

            Because Chinese won’t buy massive thirsty trucks. Wtf…Tesla was in China before they even started making EVs.

            • boonhet@lemmy.zip
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              38 minutes ago

              There’s a lot of protectionism going on in China, most western manufacturers aren’t allowed to sell their own cars without a Chinese company owning the majority of the partnership. Most countries don’t really have rules like that, China is kinda unique.

              The Chinese actually LOVE big cars. Every other European manufacturer makes long wheelbase versions of their midrange sedans for China exclusively. Space in the back is a status symbol more than comfort up front apparently. And there are a ton of big Chinese crossovers out now. I won’t call them SUVs because they’re not really off road capable, much like most western “SUVs” aren’t these days.

            • randompasta@lemmy.today
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              8 hours ago

              Depends on what you mean by American. Most assume you are referring to Ford or GM. But Tesla and Rivian are US made. Many are built in the States by non US companies. BMW, Volvo, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia.

            • arrow74@lemmy.zip
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              15 hours ago

              I worked in the government for a bit, national park service if it matters, we were only allowed to use US made vehicles.

              Constant recalls, constant breakdowns, overall unreliable. These were all vehicles that were less than 5 years okd

              I have a 2007 toyota today that refuses to die and has barely needed any work. I’ll probably have it at least another 3 to 5 years at this rate.

              American cars are shit

              • Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world
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                8 hours ago

                Worked at an oil refinery in the US. All the company cars were Ford. They all had various issues such as lights not working, the reverse beeper not working, constant engine light. We would get a loaner ford to replace our fleet ford and the loaner would fucking die. It would be comical if it wasn’t my safety being jeopardized.

                • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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                  7 hours ago

                  Where car is made is irrelevant. How it is designed and engineered matters. Toyotas made in North America outlast anything designed in Detroit.

                  • randompasta@lemmy.today
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                    3 hours ago

                    My point is that there’s really not much difference now. I’m betting many car manufacturers are starting to have AI design some parts. So where something is designed matters a lot less.

                • arrow74@lemmy.zip
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                  8 hours ago

                  Except for the design and almost all the parts. Probably was assembled here

                  • randompasta@lemmy.today
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                    8 hours ago

                    Many GM and Ford parts are made outside of the US. Possibly only the design and headquarters really separates them. It’s a global supply chain for all companies.

              • cabbage@piefed.social
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                15 hours ago

                American capitalism has rendered companies incapable of producing anything that’s not crap at a scale because they need to maximise profit at all costs, while quality doesn’t mean shit. Every company is Boeing.