If you’ve ever had someone close to you develop alzheimers, especially family where it was then more likely that you would develop it, you would have no problem paying for drugs to prevent it for life. It’s probably the cruelest thing that can happen to a person in life.
Nothing specific, we just need to acknowledge that if people reproduce with serious diseases the prevalence increases. Medicine is fantastic at saving lives, this is no anti-medicine rhetoric.
Medicine is so good, and only getting better, that our genetic fitness as a species is going to be progressively eroded through the continued spread of negative mutations.
Generations will progressively suffer more and be more dependent on medicine to live a normal life compared to now.
There are two main ways to prevent genetic disease, either don’t reproduce or control genetics. Each with their own stack of moral dilemmas. Inaction is also a choice with its own issues and moral concerns, like in the trolley problem, except over such a long period of time the cause and effect is not abundantly obvious
That’s a little simplistic and forgets one thing: natural selection only cares until you’re old enough to procreate, biologically, and there’s nothing it will do for humanity after that age.
So yeah, natural selection is totally cool with you dying of a splinter at 16.
That’s almost true. I said natural selection only impacts odds of reproduction but there’s a few things that occur after reproduction age in a population that have been studied to be naturally selected tooo
Behaviours of gays and the elderly are selected for to an extent because they help raise children in the tribe/community/group whilst not affecting reproductive pressures
Improving survival odds through nurturing children/others leads to groups with those genes doing better, which selects for those genes via natural selection
If the older members of the group are fitter and can help gather food/hunt then those genes are selected for too through increased survival of their offspring
That only matters if the children and the elders share the same genes right? I don’t see how people from a different tribe (for example) taking care of children (of another tribe) would make their genes pass on.
It’s a little complex in reality with men being able to reproduce for pretty much their whole adult lives (raising children that support the tribe, allowing elders to live longer and then reproduce with younger women)
It does not — dumb people have the same access to the better drugs as smart people.
A eugenics-driven society where dumb people are left to die and smart people get extra health care likely would be effective at breeding children who are better at passing the “smart people” test, but I would not like to live in a society like that.
If you’re about to argue that having enough money to pay for health care correlates with intelligence… I would welcome some evidence. I used to think that was obvious but, having grown up and experienced the world some, the only thing I see that correlates with intelligence is depression.
You just linked to an article which says one guy told another newspaper genz is dumb. Then you go to the other newspaper and they link the piece of research which he presented not to a peer reviewed journal but rather to the Senate. The whole piece of research consists of 7 pages.
I’m sorry man, I was underestimating how much smarter is genz than previous generations…
I Read it. Just seems like bad parenting and school adaptation. nothing to do with natural selection. Besides They used to say the same about kids in 90s like “they have bad memory” but almost every kids could name all 150 Pokémon just not every element. Not because they couldn’t they just dont care. They metric is always seemed skewed to me…
It’s not dying, we just reached the top of the food chain.
Then we got all sciency and improved health and quality of life at advanced age. And improved survival rates at birth/youth.
Now we practice capital darwinism in order to keep our numbers in check. We make sure the poor have worse access to healthcare and quality diets. We let generations of institutionalized racism decide who has to be poor.
And then…we changed the world. If your great-great-grandma were transported to the modern dlay at age 25, she wouldn’t survive. The world is completely foreign to everything humanity has ever known.
No wonder we have obesity epidemics in a world where addictive calorie-dense and nuttitionally-void food is readily available and cheaper than anything that grows out of the ground.
No wonder we have ADHD and Autism when there’s an overabundance of stimuli constantly surrounding us.
That’s not true, though. There’s nothing to corrupt. The human genome is 41% fruit fly, 60% banana and 8% virus simultaneously. Hugh Mann Georg, whose genome is 131 billion percent human is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
Plus natural selection isn’t solely random by nature, nor is it independent of humans. It doesn’t magically go away, even with sci-fi gene technology, since people would naturally select genes that they find attractive, make them superhuman, or won’t give them some nasty disease. Humans deciding that they want a gene that gives them breasts all-year round because they find them attractive is no different to humans selecting for the trait over generations, for much the same reason.
Hope our descendants enjoy paying for life long drugs to prevent a number of diseases (fingers crossed anyway)
Trump killed over 80% of all Alzheimer’s research, as well as cancer.
Ah, if only Alzheimer’s or cancer would kill him for a change.
If you’ve ever had someone close to you develop alzheimers, especially family where it was then more likely that you would develop it, you would have no problem paying for drugs to prevent it for life. It’s probably the cruelest thing that can happen to a person in life.
Two of my grandparents had it, I’ll probably get it if I last that long
And would you take a tablet a day to prevent it? As someone in roughly the same situation as you, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Pretty much depends on the price. If it is over the counter painkiller pricing yes if it is hiv med pricing no
Natural selection is dying and our genetics are getting corrupted
Just because we don’t get eaten by leopards much anymore doesn’t mean selection isn’t happening.
Apply some context… It’s not going to be removing diseases from the gene pool at anywhere near the rate of before modern medicine
What exactly are you advocating for here?
Nothing specific, we just need to acknowledge that if people reproduce with serious diseases the prevalence increases. Medicine is fantastic at saving lives, this is no anti-medicine rhetoric.
Medicine is so good, and only getting better, that our genetic fitness as a species is going to be progressively eroded through the continued spread of negative mutations.
Generations will progressively suffer more and be more dependent on medicine to live a normal life compared to now.
There are two main ways to prevent genetic disease, either don’t reproduce or control genetics. Each with their own stack of moral dilemmas. Inaction is also a choice with its own issues and moral concerns, like in the trolley problem, except over such a long period of time the cause and effect is not abundantly obvious
Don’t take any medicine whatsoever and die young. You can do it. We’ll carry on. Somehow.
Natural selection is dying at old age of 28 from a tooth infection or a broken foot.
Natural selection is driven by pressures that affect reproduction chances. Like a genetic mutation that makes you sicker
In nature it’s what cleans the genetics of a species of disease over time, preventing infinite accumulation of negative mutations
That’s 1918 thinking.
That’s a little simplistic and forgets one thing: natural selection only cares until you’re old enough to procreate, biologically, and there’s nothing it will do for humanity after that age.
So yeah, natural selection is totally cool with you dying of a splinter at 16.
Sorry to bust your eugenics bubble.
That’s almost true. I said natural selection only impacts odds of reproduction but there’s a few things that occur after reproduction age in a population that have been studied to be naturally selected tooo
Behaviours of gays and the elderly are selected for to an extent because they help raise children in the tribe/community/group whilst not affecting reproductive pressures
Improving survival odds through nurturing children/others leads to groups with those genes doing better, which selects for those genes via natural selection
If the older members of the group are fitter and can help gather food/hunt then those genes are selected for too through increased survival of their offspring
That only matters if the children and the elders share the same genes right? I don’t see how people from a different tribe (for example) taking care of children (of another tribe) would make their genes pass on.
It’s a little complex in reality with men being able to reproduce for pretty much their whole adult lives (raising children that support the tribe, allowing elders to live longer and then reproduce with younger women)
But essentially yes
Have you considered that natural selection also applies to being smarter so we can invent better drugs?
It does not — dumb people have the same access to the better drugs as smart people.
A eugenics-driven society where dumb people are left to die and smart people get extra health care likely would be effective at breeding children who are better at passing the “smart people” test, but I would not like to live in a society like that.
If you’re about to argue that having enough money to pay for health care correlates with intelligence… I would welcome some evidence. I used to think that was obvious but, having grown up and experienced the world some, the only thing I see that correlates with intelligence is depression.
You’re right, there’s no big correlation between IQ and wealth
Failed there too, zoomers are the first generation dumber than their parents
We’re full steam into Idiocracy now
I heard that about boomers, gen X, and millenials.
That’s scientifically false though, it’s true in every dimension studied for zoomers
Ok, random internet person, whatever you say.
See flightyhobler’s link
Measured how? Seem much smarter to me.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/gen-z-is-the-first-generation-dumber-than-their-parents-neuroscientist-claims/
You just linked to an article which says one guy told another newspaper genz is dumb. Then you go to the other newspaper and they link the piece of research which he presented not to a peer reviewed journal but rather to the Senate. The whole piece of research consists of 7 pages.
I’m sorry man, I was underestimating how much smarter is genz than previous generations…
I Read it. Just seems like bad parenting and school adaptation. nothing to do with natural selection. Besides They used to say the same about kids in 90s like “they have bad memory” but almost every kids could name all 150 Pokémon just not every element. Not because they couldn’t they just dont care. They metric is always seemed skewed to me…
It’s not dying, we just reached the top of the food chain.
Then we got all sciency and improved health and quality of life at advanced age. And improved survival rates at birth/youth.
Now we practice capital darwinism in order to keep our numbers in check. We make sure the poor have worse access to healthcare and quality diets. We let generations of institutionalized racism decide who has to be poor.
And then…we changed the world. If your great-great-grandma were transported to the modern dlay at age 25, she wouldn’t survive. The world is completely foreign to everything humanity has ever known.
No wonder we have obesity epidemics in a world where addictive calorie-dense and nuttitionally-void food is readily available and cheaper than anything that grows out of the ground.
No wonder we have ADHD and Autism when there’s an overabundance of stimuli constantly surrounding us.
We’ve always have ADHD and autism. We just called it something else.
Make a list of world’s best scientists in history, most would be labelled autistic today.
You just described the death of natural selection in this context, we’re no longer selecting for genetics to minimise disease
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That’s not true, though. There’s nothing to corrupt. The human genome is 41% fruit fly, 60% banana and 8% virus simultaneously. Hugh Mann Georg, whose genome is 131 billion percent human is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
Plus natural selection isn’t solely random by nature, nor is it independent of humans. It doesn’t magically go away, even with sci-fi gene technology, since people would naturally select genes that they find attractive, make them superhuman, or won’t give them some nasty disease. Humans deciding that they want a gene that gives them breasts all-year round because they find them attractive is no different to humans selecting for the trait over generations, for much the same reason.
WTF…gibberish and apparently you have no idea how breasts work. They aren’t crops.
read those links. That’s not even close to true.
Okay good argument I’m convinced science is entirely misguided