sweetpotato

To think that there’s only one issue with the neoliberal democrats is so sad…truly. Don’t mistake focusing on Palestine with that being the only issue. Maybe if they didn’t like the wall so much or had any progressive economic policies or environmental ones, we’d talk about it. They are serving the oligarchs with a few social progressive policies, that’s too little, sorry

All of that just to see the “lesser” evil shift consistently to the right every election cycle. There has to be a red line at some point, a point where there’s no significant ideological difference, but no

No choice would help them and thinking the dems didn’t give Israel everything it wanted is the problem. But that’s what people who don’t really care would say, cause if you cared this entire year, you’d realize this and would’ve noticed the endless pleas for embargo.

Peak White people in the west* humanity

Enough so that I can pay the AC bill during the night, cause healthy sleep requires low temperatures.

Besides that, I will ask for as much as I can get away with.

Depends really. What do you value in your life? What ethical framework do you use? Do you value freedom and self determination, do you value people different from you as much as people of your nationality/race? Or perhaps do you value the Western stability, growth, dominance and wellbeing at the expense of the economic South more? There’s no objective answer, it depends on you and your viewpoint.

If we do away with the propaganda and misinformation we are left with this question. Because the US and Europe would never support anyone for the sake of them being the only democracy in the middle east or fighting terrorists or whatever. If that were the case the US wouldn’t have been complicit with the dictatorships of the gulf countries or any other of the innumerable dictatorships they have established throughout the years in the world. And they would also not be funding the ISIS or other terrorist groups in Columbia, Cuba, Nicaragua and so many other countries.

No dominant organisation in the world like the US state would give a significant amount of money(like it does for Israel) for something that doesn’t serve their material interests, namely the perpetuation and/or increase of their power and influence.

So what do you value? Freedom and dignity for all, or more power for the Western states and corporations (- and whatever religious crap you want to excuse colonising and ethnically cleansing a nation)?

If you see this, it’d save you a lot of time from arguing about every single event of the conflict. If you see every human in the world as equal and deserving of freedom, then you’d see that Israel and the West is bringing these people at the brink of extinction, torturing, killing, humiliating, starving them, expelling them from their land, destroying their vital civil infrastructure, stealing their land and property for 75 years now. And when you see all this (not from Western mainstream media though), you’d recognise the right for armed struggle against a colonizing entity that Israel is. No civilian casualties are acceptable, but the ones affected in 7/10/23 would have to turn against their government for ethnically cleansing Palestinians, bringing them to that desperate point of retaliation, not Palestinians.

My “attitude” in no way excuses the very offensive remarks on your part, but I guess that’s what happens when you try to defend undefendable claims. You jump from claim to claim, when you are proven wrong, like how you edited out the part where you claim the European trend can be extrapolated to the entire world and you personally attack me with the excuse that I was taken aback by the ignorance on a straightforward Google search.

From what you remember (from where? That’s a good question I guess no one will ever answer us apparently)that does not make up for the overall downwards trend of consumption and emissions. Ok let’s deconstruct that quickly. Consumption has not been decreasing, it has been increasing, proven by the ever rising GDP, which measures exactly that, the total output of goods and services and considering the imports and exports are roughly equal for Europe and that material consumption is coupled to gdp, that’s the consumption.

When I say that Europe has outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries, I wasn’t talking just about “importing goods”. I was talking about their entire production. And the fact that fossil fuel consumption is still ever growing in Europe as well as in the entire West, coupled to the GDP growth is proven in Hickel(2019) “Is green growth possible”, where the domestic material consumption index is proven not to be accounting for the outsourced fossil fuels and materials consumed in third world countries to produce the goods imported, vital for Europe. The actual material footprint(which is the fossil fuel consumption and materials combined) is growing along with the GDP. And when you understand this, you realize it is all an illusion of accounting.

These are your two tragically false claims. For the third paragraph I don’t have much to say besides that third world countries need to increase their GDP to be living comfortably since they are destitute and the first world countries need to degrow like we said. Scientists have been saying this for so many years. There is a space between planetary boundaries and the decent living conditions that all people can and should be living in. The west exceeds the planetary limits(per capita), the economic south is below decent living conditions. That’s what degrowth preaches. It refers to the west, not the world in general.

Why would you assume I am talking about Europe which accounts for 1/10 of the global energy consumption and why would I be talking the continent that has mostly outsourced its heavy industry to third world countries? Why would you assume this?

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy?time=2000..latest

Here’s your source. Here’s your total energy consumption. It couldn’t have been that hard to look at our world in data right? How can you be so absolutely wrong about data in plain sight while being confident about it? Do you have an agenda?

Wasn’t expecting this under a random unrelated post. A very welcome comment nonetheless.

Never forget that the exponential boom of renewable energy tech the last 20 years has entirely served as additional energy, not as replacement of fossil fuels.

Because it’s a far right party. Trump happens to be more far right, but that doesn’t change that fact. I’m not voting for far right, neoliberal, genocidal freaks.

At how many genocides do you draw the line? If the democrats committed a second one along with the Palestinian genocide they are committing right now? You’d again say trump would be worse, vote for Harris. If they committed three? Four? No matter what they do, Trump would do worse, so again you’d tell us to vote for Harris.

I draw the line at a genocide and at everything this neoliberal party stands for. I am not giving that party my approval because it is going in the exact opposite direction of what I stand for. At some point, the lesser evil is too evil.

Here’s your citation:

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=D

Democrat Senators are funded more by the military than the republican ones, and that’s only the above the table money. And before you say I’m cherry picking, I know I am. I’m not trying to argue that republicans are better, they are not. I’m just giving perspective on how little they differ.

I don’t care if Stein is an oligarch, she very well could be, but I never advocated for her. In only advocate for not voting the two systemic, imperial, neoliberal parties. Also I never talked about Harris or Trump’s personal wealth. Having a couple millions in the bank doesn’t make you an oligarch. Oligarchs are the actually super rich people that these parties necessarily serve, like I’ve explained. It has to do with their actions and their party’s ties and actions. That’s not a serious argument. But I don’t know about Stein’s history and what she has done. If you think she checks the boxes above, don’t vote for her either. I’m not deifying anyone.

As for the last part, which is the actually important one, no matter how much you try to make it about feelings and repeat it, you unfortunately will never make anyone believe this. If I thought it would help Palestinians to vote for Harris, my feelings would tell me to vote for her, it’s as simple as that. But you are so deeply fried in the oligarchy propaganda that you can’t understand what I already pointed out. That you blatantly assume that the democrats made any non-negligible concession on that matter that the republicans wouldn’t and so we should vote for them. This is 100% wrong.

I am not complicit with this oligarchy system we are living in, not only in regards to the genocide. So I’m not voting for them, I am not giving my approval. They can’t produce any meaningful change, they are both far right neoliberal parties.

And if you want to vote for Hitler, I don’t really care, I am assuming you say this now because it strengthens your argument, but the difference would be so negligible (as is now) that the fact that there is one more vote on them signifying approval has to be more detrimental than the bad Hitler coming to power. There are limits to the harm the lesser evil is allowed to cause, and you willing to vote for Hitler doesn’t change that.

It’s so funny that you think the democrats aren’t the genocidal maniacs that have unconditionally supported and armed Israel. It doesn’t get much worse than this, Israel has got literally everything it has asked for lmao. The problem is you thinking they are in any way holding back, but go off. As Joe said, no president has supported Israel as much as I did.

Tell us how not so evil the democrats, which are funded by the military industrial complex more than the republicans, are. Tell us how they work for our interests, not the oligarchs, please.

I’ve said this a million times, if the two candidates were Hitler and Hitler again, but he funded a little bit more the healthcare system who would you vote for? None is the answer. When the dilemma consists of ideologies and political/social trajectories that are 100% opposite to your ideal ones, the lesser evil doesn’t exist.

Don’t blame the dead on the people who have done more than the 99% for the cause, I can’t take you seriously that way. You can blame the oligarchs and the fascists/liberals who don’t care.

So dnc candidates are not puppets, got it. Also the comment was made taking the survey findings for granted, so no spoiler candidates for you people, but you didn’t see that either.

I saw everything I needed when you moved right past the genocide part though, I don’t expect someone like you to understand regardless.

I’m not voting for the “lesser evil” when the “lesser evil” commits a genocide. There is no dilemma when we are counting genocides. When do you start realising that both are serving the 1% interests? When does this end - if the dems commit 3 genocides and the republicans 4? If the dems commit 10 and the republicans 11? The red line is long crossed.

Don’t tell us what to do lmfao.

Why? What’s the excuse this time? You guys are too comfortable supporting genocide perpetrators

Ukrainian genocide? Where is this even coming from?

Regardless, your comment reveals the answer to your dilemma. If the question is how many genocides/oppressions you are willing to put up with, then it’s a system worth abolishing. If one party commits 4 genocides and the other 5, then would you choose the one committing 4? There is necessarily a point where both parties are doing so badly, they’re indistinguishable and they are both crossing the red lines, that applies for everyone of us, no exceptions. So the question then remains, where do you draw the line for this?

Another example I usually give for this is: one party being Hitler and the other being Hitler but he is giving a little bit more money to the healthcare system. Would you vote for Hitler? No, so you have to draw the line somewhere. We draw it at a genocide(and at numerous more issues which are for another discussion)

I know you’d wish that, but unfortunately genocide is too much for me and the least evil argument doesn’t hold up anymore. There are red lines and dnc has absolutely crossed them. I’m not expecting you to understand, you clearly don’t care enough about the genocide.

I wouldn’t know since I am not a republican. I’m just absolutely not ok with the Palestinian genocide, but you care so little that you only seen republicans, regardless if the critique comes from the right or from the left. You’d wish you could make me look like a republican.

Rather unfortunate for you that the folks complaining about dnc being 100% complicit and funding the genocide, have never ever claimed that Trump is the better choice.

Also I love the genocide in quotes, really says all you need to know

Pretty unfortunate for you that there’s free speech then huh? Not letting you spew your dnc propaganda undisturbed