The government has “strongly condemned” chants at Glastonbury Festival from rap punk duo Bob Vylan calling for “death” to the Israeli military and broadcast live on the BBC.
Rapper Bobby Vylan led chants of “free, free Palestine” and “death, death to the IDF [Israel Defense Forces]” during their set, which came just before Belfast rap trio Kneecap.
A BBC spokesperson said some of the comments were “deeply offensive”, adding it had issued a warning on screen about “very strong and discriminatory language”. The set will not be available to rewatch on BBC iPlayer.
Police said they were reviewing videos of comments made by Bob Vylan and Kneecap to decide whether any offences had been committed.
“Death to the IDF” is not what I would chant, but it’s honestly mild compared to the kinds of slogans (eg. “Death to Arabs” and “Let your village burn”) West-funded, West-supported, West-armed, and West-protected-from-accountability Israeli fanatics chant before committing actual fucking atrocities. Hell, it’s mild compared to the Amalek rhetoric of Israeli state leadership.
Edit: why is “death to the IDF” mild compared to “death to Arabs”? You can choose to not join or to leave the IDF (it might cost you some jail time, but if that’s the price for keeping one’s soul, so be it). You can at the very least not self-identify with it and distance yourself from what it has become. Basically, there are many off ramps out of the IDF. There are no ramps off of existing as an Arab.
Absolutely! It’s in the choice. You consciously choose to be part of the IDF, you aren’t born into it, and thus it’s not a hateful statement. You know, except for BBC weaklings
It’s about as narrowly targeted a chant as you can get.
It’s not about jews. It’s not about israelis. It’s specifically the army of israel. If that’s not narrowly targeted enough, what’s acceptable? “Down with the members of the IDF who intentionally target civilians but not those members of the IDF who are willing to risk a court martial to make sure that they only attack valid military targets?” Doesn’t make a very good chant.
Good point, the IDF, being an occupying army, under international law is absolutely a legitimate target for violent armed Palestinian resistance
I see this delusional and out of touch argument being made all over the internet, and it’s so damn annoying. These takes are always from chronically online larpers who never leave the comfort of their house, they always say shit like:
“why don’t people of Iran just overthrow the theocracy?”
“why don’t the people of North Korea just topple the Kim dynasty?”
“why don’t Russian conscripts just refuse to fight in Ukraine?”
“why don’t Israelis just refuse to be in the IDF?”
“why don’t Americans just have a revolution?”
Could it be because that reality is not that simple? It’s easy to sit there in your dark room all day dreaming about being a heroic revolutionary, but in reality? You wouldn’t do shit because you understand that the consequences are a lot harsher in reality than in your imagination. This over simplistic view of the world just boils away the complexity and nuance of humanity. Nobody is willing to risk their freedom, stability, future, or life to appear moral or have a “clean soul”. When shit gets real and you’re in the same position as all these people, you’ll end up doing the same as them. If reality was that easy then we wouldn’t have tyrannical regimes or wars or exploitation, but we do. Trying to blame a 20 year conscript for being forced to serve in the military by extremist leaders is stupid and unhelpful. They’re not making the situation better, but it’s also not their fault they’re in that position in the first place.
And yet we are all accountable for our actions.
Love that the “just following orders” defense is making a comeback. Just as valid today as during the Nuremberg trials.
Its not though. Do you think a few years in prison will make you a better person? Or having to find a job as a felon or whatever the Israeli equivalent is? you are asking people to do shit no one will ever ask of you and you will never be put in a similar situation. Fuck the IDF, but if you want this to end you have to see the whole picture.
So this is pretty much exactly the line of reasoning that the nazis used to defend their participation in the holocaust. It wasn’t convincing then, and no, it isn’t convincing for the current genocide either.
Then we should be thinking hard about how these countries recruit. I am not saying defend the war criminals, but if you want to fight them you have to see how they work.
Look at all these countries that fought the nazis long ago and how they became more and more fascist afterward. you would think they would be smarter then this, but it is clear all the wrong lessons have been learned.
Sure, but that’s a whole different convo from finding “your honor, I had to murder the 5 year old; the alternative was a couple of months in prison and flipping burgers for the rest of my life” at all agreeable.
Agreed. But it sure does not feel like people here want to make that distinction.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean. To be clear about my own position in this:
Chanting death to the idf is, to me, morally equivalent to chanting death to the SS. Both are ok, even though the SS had forced conscription.
Forced conscription is bad, but not really on topic.
I think we should disallow any travelers or trade from Israel into my country. No currency of fascists should be traded with dollars, until as a state they atone for their crimes.
Maybe? Isreal would still have the better weapon platforms then its regional neighbors and i think will more likely use a nuke in a situation like that if it feels desperate enough.
There are plenty of people refusing to join the idf, its not some mystical heroicism. Regardless of how people joined it, a military occupying land and committing a genocide is a legitimate target under international law.
You can totally not join the IDF there are many people not doing it it just strips you off the opportunity to get lucrative army jobs and you are definitely being stigmatized in Israeli society and potentially even your own family, but you are not risking your personal safety by not joining this genocidal apartheid occupation force. It’s a question of taking a stand. Do you want to be at the very least complicit in war crimes being committed, yes or no?
AFAIK you can also not join the IDF by simply being extremely religious.
Yea, Orthodox Jews have total exemption from joining the armed forces. If you really don’t want to murder children and steal land, go study the Talmud. No excuse.
For some of them it’s “if you don’t want to risk your life in the armed forces, but really, really want other people to go and murder children and steal land so you can benefit, go study the Talmud”.
Yet you don’t use this excuse for hamas. It suck that they had to do a terrorist act for people to talk again about 77 years of oppresion by israel. The idf leaving gaza to control it from outside and continuing occupying the west bank, demolishing house, torturing paleatinians , raping them and killing them make it hard for hamas to resist following international law.
Would you have use the same argument for nazis to follow hitler?
Don’t you also see how many idf soldiers are filming themselves mocking plaestinians and having fun?
I would to a degree. I was alive when the ‘war on terror’ started, the recruiting starts at childhood and you can join at 17 that is no where near enough to make an entirely informed choice like that. And in the US if you are poor and want to go to college or get healthcare you really do not have many other options.
Hamas and the taliban are absolutly evil organizations. But if your country is being occupied and they are the only ones you seem to be fighting back then what do you do?
You don’t need to be informed to know that you shouldn’t kill civilians purposely in wars and torture people lie it happened in Guantanamo bay and Abu Ghraib. There is still a big difference between the aggressor war crimes in position of power and resistance groups trying to do everything to end occupation including atrocities like in 7 of October.
I think if Palestine is ever liberated , war crimes from both side should be held accountable
I agree. But we also need to look at the lies they are told and how pervasive those lies are recruiters are basically child groomers. Very few people join because they think they are going to get to kill civilians.
Again plenty and plenty of idf soldiers are filming themselves enjoying and being proud of their crimes you can’t claim that they didn’t know what they are doing. IDF is pure pure pure evil a lot worse than Hamas
The people filming it would be the absolute worst of them or maybe the IDF only uses the most absolute sociopaths for their combat roles. The dude cleaning floors or whatever to avoid going to prison should not be held in the same regard as the dude executing children.
Common you know that death to idf means idf soldiers deserve to be killed in gaza . Palestinians has the right to self defence in gaza and the west bank. Do you really believe that the artist or anybody here is justifying killing someone cleansing floor for the idf?
By the way, do apply the same logic to the Hamas fighters.
I edited my comment since I made it. Here is the newer version. Bold the bit that I think adresses your concern.