He reportedly joked that the secret to a long marriage was ensuring your spouse was “someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there”
“In what was always understood as a private conversation James, the Home Secretary tackling spiking, made what was clearly meant to be an ironic joke - for which he apologises,” a spokesperson for Cleverly said in a statement.
So a self-deprecating, incredible obvious joke, told in private to friends, has people jumping to be offended!
People really need to save their outrage for serious stuff because being outraged over something like this minimizes actually serious situations. It’s like the boy who cried wolf(read: outrage).
Edit: is also fairly obvious that most of you just read the headline and popped in to be outraged. Merry Christmas!
Yeah, this is ridiculous. Imagine living in a world where you are afraid of joking because people will lose their minds.
Even if his joke was even worse than this, who cares? The people at the party would have thought, “Wow, this guy is lame,” and that would have been enough of a consequence.
What kind of puritanical, pearl-clutching, and judgemental society are we creating with these outrageous reactions. Get a life people.
If you wanna hate him, hate him for actual valid reasons. Don’t become a petty gossip-monger.
It’s a joke about drugging your wife. You know that’s a real thing that happens, right?
You’ll have to forgive me for not finding “I abuse my wife” a funny joke. I dont find abusing women to be a funny subject, really no matter the context. If he had said, “The secret to my long marriage is beating my wife,” would you have still found it funny? Or is it only acceptable because the joke is that he is drugging her?
I can not imagine what I would do if my spouse said something like that to me. It’s violating demeaning and humiliating. A total lack of respect for me.
Yeah that doesn’t really matter when it is absolutely offensive to women. As evidenced by the response to this leak. Don’t joke about abusing your wife. It’s really just not funny. This has come up many times before in public discourse. It was one of the watershed moments of the feminist movement of the 70s. Specifically men making jokes about beating their wives.
The joke is in no way offensive to women. You insinuating that it is just because some overly-sensitive people (lots of which have a monetary incentive to do so) jump to call offense is what’s actually offensive.
You don’t have to find it funny. You also don’t have to be so offended by it. It’s clear you don’t share the same humor. Maybe your spouse doesn’t either. Neither of you I smarties to the guy.
It’s not a big deal, as the other poster said, save your outrage for something that actually matters.
Misogyny does matter. Abusing women isn’t funny. It’s not a joke. It’s a real, horrible thing that happens every single day around the world.
You’re not going to change my mind on this. Anyone who would openly make such misogynistic comments should be met with outrage. As women, we face jokes about being abused since we are children. We are told that we are annoying and that it’s perfectly normal for our husbands to hate us, to hit us, and that we are to subservient to subservient to him no matter what he does or says to us. We see women in media face further violence for speaking out about abuse, hated for talking about their experiences, and having their experiences dismissed by men across society.
It’s just not funny. Plain and simple. It’s gross, and it diminishes real suffering. The reaction to this “joke” is warranted. It’s not acceptable.
LOL. No one is saying abusing women is funny. We are saying a self-deprecating joke by a guy basically saying his wife is too good for him is not something worth getting so offended by.
It’s just not funny.
People laughed at the joke, and plenty of people here have told you they found it funny. So this is just patently untrue. It’s just not funny to you. Which is okay. Humor is often about trying to figure out if you share values with the other person. You found out you don’t share the same values with him. That’s a good thing.
It’s gross, and it diminishes real suffering.
Honestly, I feel like you’re diminishing real suffering by trying to paint this self-deprecating joke as an attack on women that is dismissing the suffering that many people, of both sexes, are victims of. I’ll save my outrage for actual abuse, when you get outraged by every little perceived slight, you’re feeding into the outrage fatigue and probably making people less receptive to actual acts that we should be addressing.
It’s like the boy who cried wolf. People are going to stop listening to you if you keep spreading outrage over a mildly distasteful joke.
Nah, just the like the jokes about beating your wife that were around in the 70s its just not funny. And I’m not the only woman outraged. The punchline is that he’s drugging his wife. You’re not gonna convince me otherwise on this, and again, I’m not the only one who sees this as wrong.
I dont give a fuck if people get tired of having misogyny called out. Don’t be misogynistic lol pretty damn easy. You also act like this is the only thing that I speak out against, which is very funny to me. I call out misogyny and bigotry whenever I encounter it. Not going to change anytime soon, and whether you or anyone else doesn’t want to hear it doesn’t matter to me. Clearly, it tickled your feathers enough for you to suddenly continue the dialog after a week. So good, maybe next time before you make a joke about abusing a woman you’ll consider it for an extra second. Maybe you’ll notice the way all the women in the room react to your joke about abusing women. Maybe you won’t give a shit. It’s not really my problem either way. Joking about abusing your wife is gross, demeaning, and disrespectful to her. And the politician in question was rightfully called out for that.
I get that people think it’s wrong. You’re the one denying what some people think (that it is funny) not me. This is a projection. And, again, I have zero interest in convincing you it’s funny. The difference between you and I is that i realize people have different senses of humor, and you’ve made it abundantly clear that you don’t find this funny.
I dont give a fuck if people get tired of having misogyny called out.
I read this as not being interested in actually solving the problem, but simply wanting to be able to virtue signal.
You also act like this is the only thing that I speak out against, which is very funny to me.
I do? How so?
Clearly, it tickled your feathers enough for you to suddenly continue the dialog after a week.
So good, maybe next time before you make a joke about abusing a woman you’ll consider it for an extra second.
Why are you making this about me? I’ve never made a joke about abusing women. I don’t find it particularly funny. Although, I do have to say I found this guy making fun of himself to be funny, but I can absolutely see why the method of doing so is in bad taste.
Look, you and I want the same thing: to protect people from being abused (well, I hope so. You make it appear that you only care about women being abused as you make sure to only mention women being the victim). The issue is that you think my defense of this self-deprecation hurts that cause, I think your outrage over of the joke hurts the cause. The only one who has provided evidence here to back up their claim is me. Just keep that in mind. Is your goal to virtue signal or is your goal to minimize abuse and protect victims? If it’s the latter, I suggest you might want to consider my point. If it’s the former, go ahead and be offended as much as possible.
Who am I virtue signaling to right now? There’s not one other person reading this thread. I don’t care about whether or not you or anyone else perceive my actions or beliefs as virtuous. I am specifically condemning the usage of women’s abuse as humor. I am a woman, I have been abused. All my friends have been abused. It’s so fucking common that entire rooms of us can come together and bond over all the ways we have been sexually physically and emotionally abused by men. It’s not a joke, it’s not funny, it doesn’t matter what you think about it.
I genuinely just got the reply from you this morning. I see that it says sent a week ago, but I only got notification of it this morning. Probably something server related.
In a discussion about the way men joke about abusing women, the abuse of men is not what is being discussed. Misogyny is an institution that starts as soon as girls are born. The way women are abused by men is unique and not equivalent to the abuse men suffer from other men and from women. There is a time and a place to discuss that abuse, and it should be talked about. That’s not here. Misogyny deserves to be called out on its own.
I dont care about how you perceive the cause or what you perceive my cause to be. I am a marxist intersectional feminist, I am an anarchist. I will speak out against bigotry wherever it appears. And I do that, very frequently and across multiple spaces across the internet. Calling out bigotry is one step in making bigotry socially unacceptable. Letting bigotry exist in whatever form allows it to be normalized and accepted. Letting misogyny exist in any form, racism in any form, homophobia in any form, all works towards the normalization and tolerance of those ideas in society. In much the same way that spreading positive inclusive media works to normalize acceptance and compassion. I’m not going to tolerate minor acts of bigotry in some delusional attempt to appeal to bigots? If bigots are dissuaded from progressive causes on account of their own bigotry being called out, they would never have been allies to progressive causes anyway.
I’m just curious, how many abuse victims have you personally helped? How many women do you know who have been abused? Have you ever helped them in any material way? Have you been there for them when they needed you? I have. I’ve been a victim of abuse myself. Have you ever volunteered at women’s shelters? Ever helped out at any organizations for women who are homeless or who have addictions?
It’s not funny. It’s not a matter of differing senses of humor. It’s a matter of recognizing the seriousness of the subject and the way abusing women is normalized across society. The way men hurt us isn’t a joke.
Now? Probably no one as you point out. Now you’re just defending your outrage. But originally, and getting offended by this in general, is what I’m talking about.
Probably something server related.
I’ve suspected something for a while now so it comes as no surprise to me. We can agree on this at least. lol
In a discussion about the way men joke about abusing women, the abuse of men is not what is being discussed.
It’s a discussion about a single person making a self-deprecating joke about themselves and their spouse. You are extending this to only men abusing women. There is no reason it can’t also be extended to every victim and perpetrator of abuse. Why only talk about female victims?
And, FTR, I am not denying misogyny exists. We both agree it does, we both want it to go away. The disagreement, again, is whether getting upset over this self-deprecating joke helps or hurts that cause. You think making a self-deprecating joke is “bigotry” against other people, I do not. Was it in bad taste? I can agree with that. But trying to argue that this guy, who was saying his wife is too good for him in an off-colored way, is bigoted against women just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I can get behind the opinion argument “look I don’t think it’s appropriate to joke in this way” but accusing him of being a bigot, based on this, is just nonsensical. He was saying his wife is too good for him. How on earth does that get construed into him thinking women are below him?
I’m not going to tolerate minor acts of bigotry in some delusional attempt to appeal to bigots?
This is the problem. It’s not just “bigots” you are pushing away. It’s allies or potential allies who see this joke as I do, just a stupid self-deprecating way of praising his wife. It’s the people who might be on the fence about supporting your cause, but see this ridiculous overreaction to a joke as an indication of very questionable rational thinking. We both agree, who cares if you offend bigots who won’t ever see your side? I just think you are pushing more than just those people away.
I’m just curious, how many abuse victims have you personally helped?
What bearing does this have on anything I’ve said? How much stronger does my position become per abuse victim helped? Does everything I say all of a sudden become true because I worked in a woman’s shelter? If I’ve been abused by a woman myself, does that also make my position stronger? I don’t get this line of questioning. It’s funny how much you want to make this about me. First I’m misogynistic, now it’s about not helping enough. It’s all an attempt to avoid the point by attacking my character.
It’s not funny.
As I’ve already pointed out, people laughed at it, so this is patently untrue. Just like I can’t tell you it is funny, you can’t tell other people it isn’t funny.
So a self-deprecating, incredible obvious joke, told in private to friends, has people jumping to be offended!
People really need to save their outrage for serious stuff because being outraged over something like this minimizes actually serious situations. It’s like the boy who cried wolf(read: outrage).
Edit: is also fairly obvious that most of you just read the headline and popped in to be outraged. Merry Christmas!
Yeah, this is ridiculous. Imagine living in a world where you are afraid of joking because people will lose their minds.
Even if his joke was even worse than this, who cares? The people at the party would have thought, “Wow, this guy is lame,” and that would have been enough of a consequence.
What kind of puritanical, pearl-clutching, and judgemental society are we creating with these outrageous reactions. Get a life people.
If you wanna hate him, hate him for actual valid reasons. Don’t become a petty gossip-monger.
It’s a joke about drugging your wife. You know that’s a real thing that happens, right?
You’ll have to forgive me for not finding “I abuse my wife” a funny joke. I dont find abusing women to be a funny subject, really no matter the context. If he had said, “The secret to my long marriage is beating my wife,” would you have still found it funny? Or is it only acceptable because the joke is that he is drugging her? I can not imagine what I would do if my spouse said something like that to me. It’s violating demeaning and humiliating. A total lack of respect for me.
I showed the joke to my wife and she said that it was a good idea and she would try it on me.
Yeah that doesn’t really matter when it is absolutely offensive to women. As evidenced by the response to this leak. Don’t joke about abusing your wife. It’s really just not funny. This has come up many times before in public discourse. It was one of the watershed moments of the feminist movement of the 70s. Specifically men making jokes about beating their wives.
The joke is in no way offensive to women. You insinuating that it is just because some overly-sensitive people (lots of which have a monetary incentive to do so) jump to call offense is what’s actually offensive.
#notallwomen
You don’t have to find it funny. You also don’t have to be so offended by it. It’s clear you don’t share the same humor. Maybe your spouse doesn’t either. Neither of you I smarties to the guy.
It’s not a big deal, as the other poster said, save your outrage for something that actually matters.
Misogyny does matter. Abusing women isn’t funny. It’s not a joke. It’s a real, horrible thing that happens every single day around the world.
You’re not going to change my mind on this. Anyone who would openly make such misogynistic comments should be met with outrage. As women, we face jokes about being abused since we are children. We are told that we are annoying and that it’s perfectly normal for our husbands to hate us, to hit us, and that we are to subservient to subservient to him no matter what he does or says to us. We see women in media face further violence for speaking out about abuse, hated for talking about their experiences, and having their experiences dismissed by men across society.
It’s just not funny. Plain and simple. It’s gross, and it diminishes real suffering. The reaction to this “joke” is warranted. It’s not acceptable.
LOL. No one is saying abusing women is funny. We are saying a self-deprecating joke by a guy basically saying his wife is too good for him is not something worth getting so offended by.
People laughed at the joke, and plenty of people here have told you they found it funny. So this is just patently untrue. It’s just not funny to you. Which is okay. Humor is often about trying to figure out if you share values with the other person. You found out you don’t share the same values with him. That’s a good thing.
Honestly, I feel like you’re diminishing real suffering by trying to paint this self-deprecating joke as an attack on women that is dismissing the suffering that many people, of both sexes, are victims of. I’ll save my outrage for actual abuse, when you get outraged by every little perceived slight, you’re feeding into the outrage fatigue and probably making people less receptive to actual acts that we should be addressing.
It’s like the boy who cried wolf. People are going to stop listening to you if you keep spreading outrage over a mildly distasteful joke.
Nah, just the like the jokes about beating your wife that were around in the 70s its just not funny. And I’m not the only woman outraged. The punchline is that he’s drugging his wife. You’re not gonna convince me otherwise on this, and again, I’m not the only one who sees this as wrong.
I dont give a fuck if people get tired of having misogyny called out. Don’t be misogynistic lol pretty damn easy. You also act like this is the only thing that I speak out against, which is very funny to me. I call out misogyny and bigotry whenever I encounter it. Not going to change anytime soon, and whether you or anyone else doesn’t want to hear it doesn’t matter to me. Clearly, it tickled your feathers enough for you to suddenly continue the dialog after a week. So good, maybe next time before you make a joke about abusing a woman you’ll consider it for an extra second. Maybe you’ll notice the way all the women in the room react to your joke about abusing women. Maybe you won’t give a shit. It’s not really my problem either way. Joking about abusing your wife is gross, demeaning, and disrespectful to her. And the politician in question was rightfully called out for that.
I get that people think it’s wrong. You’re the one denying what some people think (that it is funny) not me. This is a projection. And, again, I have zero interest in convincing you it’s funny. The difference between you and I is that i realize people have different senses of humor, and you’ve made it abundantly clear that you don’t find this funny.
I read this as not being interested in actually solving the problem, but simply wanting to be able to virtue signal.
I do? How so?
Must be something funky going on with the server, as from my perspective, I last responded a week ago, and then you just responded again this morning. Or is this another projection?
Why are you making this about me? I’ve never made a joke about abusing women. I don’t find it particularly funny. Although, I do have to say I found this guy making fun of himself to be funny, but I can absolutely see why the method of doing so is in bad taste.
Look, you and I want the same thing: to protect people from being abused (well, I hope so. You make it appear that you only care about women being abused as you make sure to only mention women being the victim). The issue is that you think my defense of this self-deprecation hurts that cause, I think your outrage over of the joke hurts the cause. The only one who has provided evidence here to back up their claim is me. Just keep that in mind. Is your goal to virtue signal or is your goal to minimize abuse and protect victims? If it’s the latter, I suggest you might want to consider my point. If it’s the former, go ahead and be offended as much as possible.
Who am I virtue signaling to right now? There’s not one other person reading this thread. I don’t care about whether or not you or anyone else perceive my actions or beliefs as virtuous. I am specifically condemning the usage of women’s abuse as humor. I am a woman, I have been abused. All my friends have been abused. It’s so fucking common that entire rooms of us can come together and bond over all the ways we have been sexually physically and emotionally abused by men. It’s not a joke, it’s not funny, it doesn’t matter what you think about it.
I genuinely just got the reply from you this morning. I see that it says sent a week ago, but I only got notification of it this morning. Probably something server related.
In a discussion about the way men joke about abusing women, the abuse of men is not what is being discussed. Misogyny is an institution that starts as soon as girls are born. The way women are abused by men is unique and not equivalent to the abuse men suffer from other men and from women. There is a time and a place to discuss that abuse, and it should be talked about. That’s not here. Misogyny deserves to be called out on its own.
I dont care about how you perceive the cause or what you perceive my cause to be. I am a marxist intersectional feminist, I am an anarchist. I will speak out against bigotry wherever it appears. And I do that, very frequently and across multiple spaces across the internet. Calling out bigotry is one step in making bigotry socially unacceptable. Letting bigotry exist in whatever form allows it to be normalized and accepted. Letting misogyny exist in any form, racism in any form, homophobia in any form, all works towards the normalization and tolerance of those ideas in society. In much the same way that spreading positive inclusive media works to normalize acceptance and compassion. I’m not going to tolerate minor acts of bigotry in some delusional attempt to appeal to bigots? If bigots are dissuaded from progressive causes on account of their own bigotry being called out, they would never have been allies to progressive causes anyway.
I’m just curious, how many abuse victims have you personally helped? How many women do you know who have been abused? Have you ever helped them in any material way? Have you been there for them when they needed you? I have. I’ve been a victim of abuse myself. Have you ever volunteered at women’s shelters? Ever helped out at any organizations for women who are homeless or who have addictions?
It’s not funny. It’s not a matter of differing senses of humor. It’s a matter of recognizing the seriousness of the subject and the way abusing women is normalized across society. The way men hurt us isn’t a joke.
Now? Probably no one as you point out. Now you’re just defending your outrage. But originally, and getting offended by this in general, is what I’m talking about.
I’ve suspected something for a while now so it comes as no surprise to me. We can agree on this at least. lol
It’s a discussion about a single person making a self-deprecating joke about themselves and their spouse. You are extending this to only men abusing women. There is no reason it can’t also be extended to every victim and perpetrator of abuse. Why only talk about female victims?
And, FTR, I am not denying misogyny exists. We both agree it does, we both want it to go away. The disagreement, again, is whether getting upset over this self-deprecating joke helps or hurts that cause. You think making a self-deprecating joke is “bigotry” against other people, I do not. Was it in bad taste? I can agree with that. But trying to argue that this guy, who was saying his wife is too good for him in an off-colored way, is bigoted against women just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I can get behind the opinion argument “look I don’t think it’s appropriate to joke in this way” but accusing him of being a bigot, based on this, is just nonsensical. He was saying his wife is too good for him. How on earth does that get construed into him thinking women are below him?
This is the problem. It’s not just “bigots” you are pushing away. It’s allies or potential allies who see this joke as I do, just a stupid self-deprecating way of praising his wife. It’s the people who might be on the fence about supporting your cause, but see this ridiculous overreaction to a joke as an indication of very questionable rational thinking. We both agree, who cares if you offend bigots who won’t ever see your side? I just think you are pushing more than just those people away.
What bearing does this have on anything I’ve said? How much stronger does my position become per abuse victim helped? Does everything I say all of a sudden become true because I worked in a woman’s shelter? If I’ve been abused by a woman myself, does that also make my position stronger? I don’t get this line of questioning. It’s funny how much you want to make this about me. First I’m misogynistic, now it’s about not helping enough. It’s all an attempt to avoid the point by attacking my character.
As I’ve already pointed out, people laughed at it, so this is patently untrue. Just like I can’t tell you it is funny, you can’t tell other people it isn’t funny.