Shame should be abolished after all. It is irrational. If there is a good reason for/against something, we should use that reason instead, and create a culture of habits around it.
Shame is an emotion. You can’t abolish an emotion. And shame is an emotion that a lot of people use to regulate themselves. This is a silly statement on it’s face. All emotions are irrational. Are you advocating for banning emotions?
There is a good reason that old men shouldn’t touch young women. Shame is one emotion that likely regulates many of those men from never doing it. Such that they would feel shame should they do such an action.
If you can’t agree on that, then I’m failing to understand your point or we simply agree to disagree.
In my experience, shame is not a natural emotion at all.
Rather, i’ve observed shame exclusively stems from somebody saying “shame on you, you shouldn’t do that”. Thus i infer that shame is a social construct, similar to gender.
Then agree to disagree. I can reflect on a number of points in my life where I’ve decided that I did the wrong thing. I hold shame for those actions and use that to hold myself to better standards now. Guilt and regret is part of shame.
1a: a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety
Even in your context of bringing shame to people, or attempting to impart guilt and disgrace… That’s an important metric to build the exact culture of habits that you’re advocating for. Most people don’t care if they litter in the park. It’s only after you guilt them into it that they’ll do it.
But no point in going any further into this conversation. It’s clear your mind is made. Have a good weekend.
Ah, i see now that i was simply defining the word “shame” a bit differently, as i’ve observed it used in everyday life:
I’ve held shame to mean “a painful emotion caused by group-pressure that indicates guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety”.
What you’ve been describing as “shame”, i’ve called it insight in practice. Insight is a good thing because it bring with itself reflection and thought, which i also like to call meditation and contemplation. That’s what society needs.
What society does not need is group-pressure, because it leads to people behaving right, but for the wrong reasons. Such behavior is short-lived and tends to bite you in the ass when you’re most vulnerable. Compare that to college kids who have always been told “no alcohol”, and then at college the first thing they do is to enjoy the absence of their parents and drink so much alcohol they go into a coma and to the hospital. Had they been taught the implications that alcohol has on your near-term health and consciousness instead, they might have been wise enough to not drink too much out of themselves. :)
Shame should be abolished after all. It is irrational. If there is a good reason for/against something, we should use that reason instead, and create a culture of habits around it.
Shame is an emotion. You can’t abolish an emotion. And shame is an emotion that a lot of people use to regulate themselves. This is a silly statement on it’s face. All emotions are irrational. Are you advocating for banning emotions?
There is a good reason that old men shouldn’t touch young women. Shame is one emotion that likely regulates many of those men from never doing it. Such that they would feel shame should they do such an action.
If you can’t agree on that, then I’m failing to understand your point or we simply agree to disagree.
In my experience, shame is not a natural emotion at all.
Rather, i’ve observed shame exclusively stems from somebody saying “shame on you, you shouldn’t do that”. Thus i infer that shame is a social construct, similar to gender.
Then agree to disagree. I can reflect on a number of points in my life where I’ve decided that I did the wrong thing. I hold shame for those actions and use that to hold myself to better standards now. Guilt and regret is part of shame.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shame
Even in your context of bringing shame to people, or attempting to impart guilt and disgrace… That’s an important metric to build the exact culture of habits that you’re advocating for. Most people don’t care if they litter in the park. It’s only after you guilt them into it that they’ll do it.
But no point in going any further into this conversation. It’s clear your mind is made. Have a good weekend.
Edit: clarification.
Ah, i see now that i was simply defining the word “shame” a bit differently, as i’ve observed it used in everyday life:
I’ve held shame to mean “a painful emotion caused by group-pressure that indicates guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety”.
What you’ve been describing as “shame”, i’ve called it insight in practice. Insight is a good thing because it bring with itself reflection and thought, which i also like to call meditation and contemplation. That’s what society needs.
What society does not need is group-pressure, because it leads to people behaving right, but for the wrong reasons. Such behavior is short-lived and tends to bite you in the ass when you’re most vulnerable. Compare that to college kids who have always been told “no alcohol”, and then at college the first thing they do is to enjoy the absence of their parents and drink so much alcohol they go into a coma and to the hospital. Had they been taught the implications that alcohol has on your near-term health and consciousness instead, they might have been wise enough to not drink too much out of themselves. :)