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Joined 3 年前
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Cake day: 2023年8月14日

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  • There is a great deal in what you say that I heartily agree with, and a few things that I don’t. I’m not European, although I do visit annually, so I have no horse in that race.

    I would say that you repeat a tired American trope that has been outdated for at least 35 years now. That Europe gets more out of the NATO than America does.

    The US gets a great deal out of NATO, arguably all lot more than Europe gets. For a start, the US has 31 permamant military bases across Europe and free access to another 19 hosted by member countries. It doesn’t really need to ask permission on how it operates on any of them. It also maintains another 275 smaller units and installations for free. This is not a one-way deal for Europe. For the US, a country that insists on projecting power to influence national policy objectives, the ability to operate like this is incredible. Does it pay rent? No. Does it seek agreement with the host country? No. It bombs first and informs later.

    Secondly, wherever possible it forces US military hardware onto European countries by way of ‘interoperability’. Those F35s provide jobs for US workers. Same with parts, same bombs and weapon systems. All that hard cash flows back to the US. There is a reason why US administrations bitch and moan about Europe not pulling it’s weight on NATO but still won’t pull out of the region. It’s because the US gets a massive indirect benefit from the deal.

    But what does Europe get in return? It’s supposed to be security guarantees. But the only country that has triggered NATO’s Article Five has been the US following 9/11. Hundreds of Europeans died in defence of what happened in far-off New York. Not that this has been appreciated by Trump.

    Lastly, the biggest threat to Europe is Putin. And what has been the US response? Not great. All of Europe has been watching and wondering has all this been worth it. The one reason Europe has been tolerating America taking over much of its foreign policy is for a security trade-off. Now it seems the arrangement is worthless.

    I’m not European, but I’m watching events. Nothing dramatic will happen in the short term. Spain cancelled it’s F35 contract. European countries have universally increased their defence budgets, not from US pressure, but from the realisation that security is unlikely to arrive from America. Countries have failed to support the US openly. First time since WW2. The whole world turned their back on the stupid Iran war. Things have changed irrevocably. However, they will only visibly change over time. You guys are sleepwalking into isolation.

    Let’s revisit the subject in 10 years and see how things have turned out?


  • You will probably have to point out where I said that hating all Americans is ok? I don’t think that I said anything about hating anyone. I said, more or less, that America is a damaged society. Others have pointed this out as well. It’s just best to ignore them, work around them and hope for the best. This crap won’t end with Trump.

    This is a cliche, fair enough, but my best friend is American, and now an Australian. Why would I hate him just for being born in a different place. I’ve also acknowledged that a great many Americans hate Trump. That is immaterial. He’s still your representative, he acts in your name and almost 50% still vote for him. All the rest doesn’t change a lived reality.


  • Once again, personal responsibility doesn’t mean shit. The Americans inflicted him upon us. That you personally didn’t has no actual bearing on reality. You may not like it, you probably hate it, but you share collective responsibility for Trump as a nation.

    So, if the rest of the world reroutes around you as a damaged and dangerous state, that should be an expected outcome. Save your pouting, and collectively deal with it.

    Saying that, I do appreciate your helpless frustration. But we all have our own political problems in our own countries. If your country is a absolute fucking trainwreak and set to destroy all normal and reasonable order, we owe all of you nothing. And if you open your eyes real wide you can see the globe rapidly sidestepinng away from you in real time. This situation won’t change an inch if you elect a jolly, sane Obama next time. Because elemental MAGA runs deep in your DNA. The only question is when will it surface next?