I’m not saying to ignore them but to really understand them you have to start with class as it is the bedrock upon which racial and gender discrimination is built. They are not separate systems but simply sub and super sets of the same system.
Nah, we can start with all of it, we don’t need to sideline gender and racial discrimination in favor of class first. We’ve been there, we’ve done that. We elevated pieces of shit like Cesar Chavez despite him raping women and little girls because class issues are most important. Leftists make a dire mistake at elevating class over all other discrimination based on faulty readings of leftist ideology.
I understand what you’re saying and I don’t think you misunderstand it. I think that there are large swaths of leftists who misunderstand what it means to build on class issues while including gender and racial issues. That we should only focus on class issues and then once that’s solved, we can move on to racial and sexist issues. It’s a faulty line of thinking. We can move in tandem on these issues and we should.
There is a history of highlighting class issues over all others to the detriment of the movement, like with Cesar Chavez.
I already said I think you understand the point I’m making, but there are a lot of leftists that would read your comments and think that we need to focus solely on class first before anything else.
Ok so you agree then that when analysing these issues we have to start with their relation to class? That gender and racial discrimination are at their core subsets of the class struggle which makes up the bedrock upon which they are built?
I agree, but in practice many leftists never come back to gender and racial discrimination when talking about any of this - it’s always class solidarity over all else. That argument is here in this very thread - that women and POC are inherently being protected and fought for within the class war and that’s not quite right. Oftentimes racial and sexual discrimination are a mere afterthought, but we cannot abandon or ignore our sisters and brothers lest we lose them in this fight. Rockslayer is better at expressing this than I am admittedly.
That’s how we end up allowing our leaders in this fight to subjugate and rape women and little girls while holding him up as a shining example of working class rights.
That doesn’t mean we ignore racial and gender discrimination to focus only on class.
I’m not saying to ignore them but to really understand them you have to start with class as it is the bedrock upon which racial and gender discrimination is built. They are not separate systems but simply sub and super sets of the same system.
Nah, we can start with all of it, we don’t need to sideline gender and racial discrimination in favor of class first. We’ve been there, we’ve done that. We elevated pieces of shit like Cesar Chavez despite him raping women and little girls because class issues are most important. Leftists make a dire mistake at elevating class over all other discrimination based on faulty readings of leftist ideology.
I don’t think you’re really understanding what I’m saying.
I understand what you’re saying and I don’t think you misunderstand it. I think that there are large swaths of leftists who misunderstand what it means to build on class issues while including gender and racial issues. That we should only focus on class issues and then once that’s solved, we can move on to racial and sexist issues. It’s a faulty line of thinking. We can move in tandem on these issues and we should.
There is a history of highlighting class issues over all others to the detriment of the movement, like with Cesar Chavez.
That’s not at all what I’m saying. So I was right you didn’t understand what I was saying.
I already said I think you understand the point I’m making, but there are a lot of leftists that would read your comments and think that we need to focus solely on class first before anything else.
Ok so you agree then that when analysing these issues we have to start with their relation to class? That gender and racial discrimination are at their core subsets of the class struggle which makes up the bedrock upon which they are built?
I agree, but in practice many leftists never come back to gender and racial discrimination when talking about any of this - it’s always class solidarity over all else. That argument is here in this very thread - that women and POC are inherently being protected and fought for within the class war and that’s not quite right. Oftentimes racial and sexual discrimination are a mere afterthought, but we cannot abandon or ignore our sisters and brothers lest we lose them in this fight. Rockslayer is better at expressing this than I am admittedly.
That’s how we end up allowing our leaders in this fight to subjugate and rape women and little girls while holding him up as a shining example of working class rights.